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To: Ranger Drew; MeanWestTexan; JDoutrider; -YYZ-; Leatherneck_MT; floridaobserver; Sloth; Paradox; ...
[Let me be the first one to say, "bulls**t". It's a scam.]

Spoken like one of those guys who told the Wright Brothers,..."If man were meant to fly, he'd have wings."

No, spoken like one of those guys who knows physics and chemistry, as well as the techniques and hallmarks of con men.

But hey, you go right ahead and send this guy your $7000, so I can laugh at you when it doesn't deliver what he promises.

And I wrote that before I went to look at the "scientific paper" on their website. It's complete gobbledygook. It frequently confuses watts with watt-hours (something a freshman physics student would get an "F" for). It claims a lab "measured the specific weight" of their magic substance as "12.3 grams/mole", when that's entirely the wrong units for specific weight (specific weight is measured per *volume*, not molecule count), *and* that value would imply that a substantial amount of mass is vanishing into thin air (instead of mysteriously *appearing* as they incorrectly say), since water in any form or any rearrangement of its atoms will have a molar weight (*NOT* "specific weight", which is something else entirely) of 18 grams/mole. They then go on to incorrectly calculate the "specific weight" of a *mixture* of different molecules (that's a no-no) by figuring the *average* molar mass, which makes no sense whatsoever. Then they do an apples-to-oranges comparison and subtract the bogus average molar mass of the mixture from the alleged molar mass of their magic gas to "show" that mass has somehow "increased", when all they've really shown is that if you juggle numbers in a nonsensical way you'll get nonsensical and meaningless "answers".

Then there's this lulu:

The first remarkable feature is the efficiency E of the electrolyzer for the production of the gas, here simply defined as the ratio between the volume of HHO gas produced and the number of Watts needed for its production. In fact, the electrolyzer rapidly converts water into 55 standard cubic feet (scf) of HHO gas at 35 pounds per square inch (psi) via the use of 5 Kwh, resulting in the remarkable efficiency of 55/5,000 = 0.001 scf/W, namely, an efficiency that is at least of the order of ten times the corresponding efficiency of conventional water evaporation, thus permitting low production costs.
Um, "water evaporation"? I thought they were claiming some sort of *electrolysis*. Did they just admit that all they're doing is producing water vapor, or are they just too stupid to understand the difference between evaporation and electrolysis? Furthermore, an "efficiency" of 0.001 scf/W ([sic] -- yet again they're cluelessly shifting back and forth between watts and watt-hours -- this one should have been "W-h" not "W", because it makes no freaking sense the way it's written) is truly crappy, not the "remarkable efficiency" they spin it as -- if you used a standard hotplate, you could evaporate over a hundred times that much water per watt-hour of energy. And while they're trying to spin 5 Kwh as a tiny trickle of energy, it's *huge* -- it's the amount of energy you'd use to run a space heater for HOURS. Imagine that kind of drain on your car's electrical system...

And so on. The whole paper's a word salad of fancy-sounding terms and numbers which make no sense when you take the time to actually read them.

Here's another howler from their website:

This unique gas is infinitely stable until it comes in contact with a select target media. Then it sublimates, causing a molecular surface exchange of certain elements, reacting with such excitation as to cause temperatures of up to 10,000° F, [...]
Man, where do I start? First, if it's "infinitely stable", then it won't react at all, but they're claiming it does, so it's not infinitely stable after all. Then they say it "sublimates" -- um, no it doesn't. They say it's a gas -- gases can't sublimate. Sublimation is the name for the process which occurs when a SOLID turns into a gas without going through a liquid state in between (like the way dry ice evaporates directly without melting into a liquid). There's no way that they can produce a gas and then have it "sublimate" -- this makes no freaking sense.

As for the "demos", there's plenty of ways to rig them. I note that the two car "tests" involved a direct injection into the engine's intake ports. Given the short length of the tests (50 miles), which would involve only two gallons of gas consumption for the car *without* any assistance, it would take only a gallon or two of conventional fuel smuggled into the engine from one of the mysterious tanks in that big box-of-junk they claim is their mystery generator in order to boost the "fuel efficiency" of the car by 50% to 100%.

As for the welding trick, if they injected excess oxygen into their mix (beyond what their fuel actually consumed when completely burning), the flame itself could be relatively cool (depending on what they were actually using for fuel), but the moment it touched something that could be oxidized, the heat of the flame would trigger rapid oxydation of the material, and it would fiercely flare up like, well, something burning in pure oxygen. Ta daa!

132 posted on 05/23/2006 12:13:06 PM PDT by Ichneumon (Ignorance is curable, but the afflicted has to want to be cured.)
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To: Ichneumon

Good post, engineer?

I haven't looked up the data in any of my textbooks, but IIRC more energy is required to 'break' a water molecule than would be created by combusion of the 2H & O.

Their 'welding' is plain funny. Perhaps we should start selling bridges, snake oil, magic beans, and AZ ocean-front property????


134 posted on 05/23/2006 12:22:07 PM PDT by proud_yank (A liberal's 'generosity' is limited to the funds available in someone else's account.)
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To: Ichneumon

Funny how this sort of *science* was applied to all the tin-hat WTC theories as well, no?


137 posted on 05/23/2006 12:25:43 PM PDT by proud_yank (A liberal's 'generosity' is limited to the funds available in someone else's account.)
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To: Ichneumon

Ever heard of quantum physics?

Evidently not if you think rules of science that were around 100 years ago still applies today.

I guess you'd think transparent aluminum is impossible as well.


141 posted on 05/23/2006 12:29:01 PM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens.)
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To: Ichneumon
Here's another howler from their website: ...

I note that we are in close agreement... ;-)

146 posted on 05/23/2006 12:34:32 PM PDT by TXnMA (Remember the Alamo! Remember Goliad! Repeat San Jacinto!!!)
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To: Ichneumon

[Thunderous applause!]


150 posted on 05/23/2006 12:41:21 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Unresponsive to trolls, lunatics, fanatics, retards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: Ichneumon
I like your response. You see, our problem is that we recognize the scam by pointing out the flagrant errors of the scammers. What we need to do is go in league with these guys, re-write their gibberish so that at first glance it may sound plausible to guys like us, then sit back while they do their stuff, take our cut and disappear before it all blows up (or fizzles out in this case). That's a recipe for wealth if I ever saw one.

:)

just kidding....

161 posted on 05/23/2006 1:01:55 PM PDT by lafroste (gravity is not a force. See my profile to read my novel absolutely free (I know, beyond shameless))
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To: Ichneumon
Then they say it "sublimates" -- um, no it doesn't. They say it's a gas --

They need those retards from the Wendy's commercial as their PR team. "It's not a solid or a liquid, it's a soquid..."

217 posted on 06/11/2006 12:29:36 PM PDT by Blue Highway
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