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Policing Phone Calls and Perverting Principles
The Objectivist Center & The Atlas Society ^ | May 18, 2006 | Edward Hudgins

Posted on 05/18/2006 8:23:07 AM PDT by Ed Hudgins

[How President Hillary Clinton will use Bush policing powers. Be very affair!]

by Edward Hudgins

The revelation that the Bush administration has secured records of millions of phone calls from three telecom companies should shock every American who is concerned about freedom. Apparently it has not. A poll the day after the disclosure found that two- thirds of Americans have no apparent problem with this practice. Perhaps those opinions will change as more details are revealed. But in any case, for the sake our freedom, Americans would do well to do what most politicians refuse to do: to think in terms of principles.

The proper purpose of government is to protect the lives, liberty and property of citizens. Preventing terrorist attacks certainly falls under this principle. Administration defenders argue that its open-ended approach to tracking phone calls is simply part of that effort.

Of course, actually listening in on rather than just tracking every call placed -- if it were possible -- might reveal not only terrorist plots but plans for domestic murders and other crimes as well. Yet we also recognize that governments can be as dangerous to our rights as criminals and terrorists. That's why in the Constitution America's Founders created three separate branches of government -- executive, legislative and judicial -- and a system of checks and balances so that none of these could easily limit our liberty.

If the executive branch suspects someone is planning a crime, it must go to a court for permission to wiretap a phone. If current wiretap laws don't cover new technologies, the executive might go to Congress to amend the law. But the Bush administration is ignoring this fundamental principle of checks and balances by strong-arming private companies to turn over phone records without any oversight by the courts or Congress.

The administration already has shown its disregard for this principle by refusing to secure quick permission from a special court set up for such cases to wire tap suspected subversives calling from overseas to the United States. Nor has it gone to Congress to amend current laws to deal with what few cases might arise where there isn't enough time to seek court approval before the fact.

It's one thing for law enforcement officials to seek cooperation from private parties to stop specific crimes; even without a warrant local merchants might work with the police to apprehend mafia thugs who are shaking down neighborhood businesses.

But the cooperation the administration seeks for phone monitoring goes far beyond this. In effect, the administration is deputizing private parties to police their customers.

In recent years there have been government attempts to deputize bank tellers, requiring them to ask customers what large deposits and withdrawals are for -- as if drug pushers are really going to answer, "I'm scoring a trunk full of coke tonight." Responses were to be reported to authorities, including your angry retort that it's none of the teller's #@!&% business.

This principle would make snitches out of those with whom we do business. In a society already rife with suspicion, policies based on this principle create a big red sign reading "Trust No One!"

Some individuals -- especially conservatives -- argue that if Americans have nothing to hide, they shouldn't mind the government monitoring who they call, how much they deposit in the bank or anything else. But conservatives who make such arguments might ask, "What will I think when President Hillary Clinton rules in accordance with this principle, perhaps applying it to other enterprises and issues?"

Perhaps local governments increasing will attempt to collect taxes on internet business transactions; the city of San Antonio currently is suing 16 online travel agencies for not paying some $10 million in various hotel levies. Perhaps the federal government will get involved in this policing or try again to impose its own taxes on a cyberspace currently free from its revenue collectors. Or perhaps there will be calls from the kinds of international regulators of whom the Clintons are so fond to crack down on tax-evading transactions with websites based in other countries.

Perhaps President Hillary will strong-arm AOL and Yahoo to turn over records about your visits to ebay and Amazon or will declare that banks must allow Janet Reno's second attorney generalship to do a full cavity search of your accounts. Hey, they're just looking for patterns of criminal behavior, that is, you greedy scofflaws trying to avoid paying your fair share to government.

What do you think now?

Principles are necessary guides to individual choice and government policies, to take us beyond the range of the moment and to show us the consequences of a course of action. The Bush administration, by ignoring the principles that check government power, might think it's tracking down terrorists today but in fact it is undermining freedom now and in the future.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 4thamendment; constitution; hillaryclinton; internet; monitoring; phones; police; policing; taxes; terrorism; wiretapping
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1 posted on 05/18/2006 8:23:10 AM PDT by Ed Hudgins
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To: Ed Hudgins
Be very affair?

How do we do that?
2 posted on 05/18/2006 8:25:26 AM PDT by rightwingintelligentsia (DemonRATs- the CULTURE OF TREASON!)
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To: rightwingintelligentsia

"Afraid," sorry. Though for a Clinton "affair" is accurate as well. If I can figure out how to edit this thing -- help! -- I'll change that!


3 posted on 05/18/2006 8:28:44 AM PDT by Ed Hudgins (Rand fan)
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To: Ed Hudgins
The proper purpose of government is to protect the lives, liberty and property of citizens.

Then why silence the good men involved in Able Danger? What did the Clinton's do with the Chi Coms during the '90's besides sell them our missile technology? What other U.S. military secrets did they sell, and to whom?

The democrat base is the dependent base. They couldn't support the democrat party alone, because they can't even support themselves. Who is paying to keep the party alive financially? It's not the American democrat base, and money isn't being sent here by other nations for free.

4 posted on 05/18/2006 8:32:54 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: Ed Hudgins
The administration already has shown its disregard for this principle by refusing to secure quick permission from a special court set up for such cases to wire tap suspected subversives calling from overseas to the United States. Nor has it gone to Congress to amend current laws to deal with what few cases might arise where there isn't enough time to seek court approval before the fact.

What if a city is bombed while they're waiting? Would it still be Bush's fault?

5 posted on 05/18/2006 8:35:21 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: Ed Hudgins

"Wiretap" is not the same nor under the same legal provisos as the NSA's "pen register" program.

Any commentator calling this "wiretap" is incompetent and unfit to be writing columns about the subject.


6 posted on 05/18/2006 8:37:23 AM PDT by angkor
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To: Ed Hudgins
Let me correct your subtitle:

[How President Hillary Clinton will use presidential powers. Be very afraid!]

It's good to be concerned on the use of third-party information. It belongs to the owners and thus the person the information is about doesn't have the Fourth Amendment protections he might wish for since he doesn't possess it. But using false assumptions of the Constitution doesn't seem very useful to me.

Apparently, all the "spying" allegations are of constitutionally or statutorially authorized exercises of presidential powers.

7 posted on 05/18/2006 8:39:54 AM PDT by mrsmith
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To: concerned about politics
As I said, the administration should go to Congress to "amend current laws to deal with what few cases might arise where there isn't enough time to seek court approval before the fact." We're not talking about Jack-Bauer emergency situations in which case the executive could and should act immediately. We're talking about ongoing, routine monitoring.
8 posted on 05/18/2006 8:40:28 AM PDT by Ed Hudgins (Rand fan)
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To: Ed Hudgins
But the cooperation the administration seeks for phone monitoring goes far beyond this. In effect, the administration is deputizing private parties to police their customers.

Posted by Peach. See #14

Democrats were okay with Eschelon and Carnivore which captured every phone call, every e-mail, every baby monitor (!), every ATM transaction and more, and that program is okay, pre war on terror, but this program isn't okay.

Eschelon and Carnivore information:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1543118/posts?page=1#1

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1542838/posts

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1543318/posts

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21387

Oops - Clinton's NSA spying program accidentally (ahem) captured a Republican's phone calls.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1553101/posts?page=1

And just for kicks, the Commies insisted on FISA:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21453

Flashback: Gore planned to bug America:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1559386/posts

NYT called domestic surveillance a necessity when Clinton was president:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1556815/posts

This is the December 2005 NYT article which says what today's USA Today article says regarding NSA collecting phone numbers.

Clearly, Democrats (and some RINOs) have manufactured their outrage over this already reported on program. LOL

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/politics/24spy.html?ei=5090&en=016edb46b79bde83&ex=1293080400&pagewanted=print

14 posted on 05/13/2006 11:47:28 PM EDT by Peach [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

9 posted on 05/18/2006 8:42:06 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: Ed Hudgins
Well, I have noticed many of my neighbors have disappeared, are they in jail? In camps?

Frightening!
10 posted on 05/18/2006 8:45:28 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: angkor

I didn't say Bush was wiretapping. In fact, I even speculated about a situation in which an administration were "actually listening in on rather than just tracking every call placed" meaning that Bush is NOT wiretapping now. "Tracking" is a shorthand for a long description of the practice in question at this time. Read more carefully; don't be an incompetent and unfit reader!


11 posted on 05/18/2006 8:46:05 AM PDT by Ed Hudgins (Rand fan)
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To: Ed Hudgins

The state of the technology is such that the government can get whatever phone records it wants, with or without the phone companies' permission or perhaps even without their knowledge. What the government can do it will do, whoever is in charge, whether there is a law or not, whether Congress screams or not. Assuredly the government is collecting a lot more information than phone records and there is nothing the people can do about it other than put a different set of people in charge of it all. Republicans mostly use such information in the pursuit of military and policy goals. Democrats have shown that they eagerly use such capabilities for immediate political ends and for protection and revenge. The worst of that attitude on the Republican side was evinced by Nixon who apparently only discussed the possibility of such things without actually accomplishing them. The only way to reduce these uses of the technology is to reduce the size and scope of government and how is that project going these days?


12 posted on 05/18/2006 8:47:02 AM PDT by arthurus (Better to fight them OVER THERE than here.)
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To: Ed Hudgins
The revelation that the Bush administration has secured records of millions of phone calls from three telecom companies should shock every American who is concerned about freedom. Apparently it has not.

Considering the denials by the telecom companies, the phrase "apparently it has not" should apply to "the Bush administration has secured records of millions of phone calls from three telecom companies". But the MSM will willfully ignore those denials in a race to attack the President.

13 posted on 05/18/2006 8:49:15 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: angkor
Any commentator calling this "wiretap" is incompetent and unfit to be writing columns about the subject.

It is the same as claiming that we are anti-(legal)immigration when we oppose letting illegals flood across the border. The public doesn't sê anything wrong with pen register stuff or with most legal immigration but the public is averse to wiretapping and to border jumping.

14 posted on 05/18/2006 8:50:24 AM PDT by arthurus (Better to fight them OVER THERE than here.)
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To: concerned about politics
You're absolutely right about Democrat hypocrisy. I'm calling on us to not be hypocrites and to hold to principles, lest we forge a sword that Pres. Hillary or someone like that will use against us.

And if anyone knows how to edit my damned subtitle, let me know!
15 posted on 05/18/2006 8:50:31 AM PDT by Ed Hudgins (Rand fan)
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To: Ed Hudgins
I didn't say Bush was wiretapping.

"The administration already has shown its disregard for this principle by refusing to secure quick permission from a special court set up for such cases to wire tap suspected subversives calling from overseas to the United States."

Oh. Ummmm... sorry then.

16 posted on 05/18/2006 9:01:16 AM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor
Yes, in those cases the issue was whether to go to the special courts for permission to wire tap or, as I suggest, have the law amended so that in a situation where there's no time to go the the court -- Osama's ringing someone up right now -- they would go after-the-fact or something. The point is to have some sort of check on that power.
17 posted on 05/18/2006 9:11:48 AM PDT by Ed Hudgins (Rand fan)
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To: Ed Hudgins
You're absolutely right about Democrat hypocrisy. I'm calling on us to not be hypocrites and to hold to principles, lest we forge a sword that Pres. Hillary or someone like that will use against us.

They already have and will again. The government has been doing it since at least 1980. The higher the technology, the more they collect. It doesn't matter who's in charge. Even the UK does it. China does it. It's here to stay.
The digital angel, where the soul of man merges with machine, will give every government all the info they need at a moments notice.
The genie is already out of the bottle. All the posturing right now is political posturing. The governments will never shut it down. Notice now no one is calling for the technology to end. The democrats just don't want Republicans to use it.

18 posted on 05/18/2006 9:19:20 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: Ed Hudgins

You shouldn't even use the word "wiretap" in the context of the NSA program. It is not relevant.

And of course you don't know (nor does anyone else) whether NSA has some sort of allocated power to conduct pen register programs under specified conditions (e.g., war), or indeed whether DoJ obtained a blanket pen register order from FISA some time ago. Such orders are renewable every 60 days and DO NOT require probable cause, only part of "an ongoing criminal investigation."

In fact, no one knows under what authority the program is conducted. Because it is CLASSIFIED.

IMO that's exactly as it should be.

When Congress gets the ability to scrutinize intelligence programs on a case-by-case basis, you might as well close the doors at NSA. It's all over.


19 posted on 05/18/2006 9:24:40 AM PDT by angkor
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To: Ed Hudgins
The revelation that the Bush administration has secured records of millions of phone calls from three telecom companies should shock every American who is concerned about freedom.

They may be Objectivists but they aren't very accurate as the telcom companies deny that this happened.

Mr. Hudgens, do you shred your home telephone bills or just throw them out in the trash for anyone to examine?

20 posted on 05/18/2006 10:09:29 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Proud soldier in the American Army of Occupation..)
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