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What If Mexicans Were Crack? - Some similar arguments.
National Review Online ^ | May 17, 2006 | Jonah Goldberg

Posted on 05/17/2006 8:37:54 AM PDT by neverdem






What If Mexicans Were Crack?
Some similar arguments.

By Jonah Goldberg

President Bush hoped to tone down and sober up the immigration fight Monday night. But it amounted to a soft “shush” at WrestleMania. 

The most interesting part of this political and ideological cage match is that few of the usual labels have much utility. President Bush and Senator Kennedy agree on a lot. Howard Dean and Hillary Clinton, meanwhile, can sound like conservative Republicans in their demands to close the border. Weekly Standard editor and Fox News sage Bill Kristol declares himself a “liberal” on immigration and “soft” on illegal immigration. Both the Weekly Standard and the editors of the Wall Street Journal consider National Review to be part of the mob of “yahoos” trying, in Kristol’s words, to drive the GOP “off a cliff.”  

So this seems like a propitious time to ask: What if illegal immigrants were crack?   

It’s not such a crazy comparison, by the way. There’s a reason why the drug war and illegal immigration have similar scripts, even though the actors reading the lines change. 

The overwhelming majority of drugs entering this country cross the U.S.-Mexican border. Indeed, in the 1990s, to the extent that the debate over building a wall along the border got any traction, it stemmed from the war on drugs, not a war on illegal immigration. The steel fence constructed between San Diego and Tijuana—which works quite well, by the way—was built to stop drug traffickers, not gardeners. 

Meanwhile, labels like “Left” and “Right,” “liberal” and “conservative” don’t get you very far when debating the drug war either. For example, National Review is foursquare against the drug war (though I dissent from my colleagues on this front). Meanwhile, the Weekly Standard has been a staunch supporter of the drug war, even taking hawkish positions on medical marijuana.  

In 1996, NR’s editors wrote:  

[I]t is our judgment that the war on drugs has failed, that it is diverting intelligent energy away from how to deal with the problem of addiction, that it is wasting our resources, and that it is encouraging civil, judicial, and penal procedures associated with police states. 

Similar arguments—from La Raza to Jack Kemp, Ted Kennedy to Ben Stein—fill the air today, with charges that immigration officials are a new “Gestapo.” 

“How many border guards would it take to make the U.S.-Mexican border impenetrable?” asked the Washington Post this week. “The answer ... is: It depends. It depends on how much money people are willing to spend and how many trappings of a police state they’re willing to accept.”  

There are other similarities. For many, “comprehensive reform” really means decriminalizing and de-stigmatizing illegal immigration just as “reform” of our drug laws translates to the same thing for drug use. Charges of racism echo each other in both debates as well. Somehow, it’s the fault of those favoring border security that most illegal immigrants are Mexicans and the fault of drug warriors that minorities are disproportionately in the drug trade.  

But for me the most interesting similarity is the issue of futility and will. Drug-war doves claim that you can’t win the drug war because you can’t defeat the laws of supply and demand. As long as there is demand for drugs, there will be a supply, and no acceptable amount of militarization of the drug war will change that. This argument gets flipped on its head when it comes to immigration. Suddenly, militarization is essential to the top priority of cutting off supply. 

But the fact is, in all likelihood your average illegal immigrant, desperate to start a new life for himself and provide for his family, will be no less determined to sell his labor than a drug dealer would be to sell his goods.  

Some drug legalization advocates hang their position on a lot of moral preening about the absolute right of the individual to do what he wants. But many of the same people will then argue that it is—and should be—an outrageous crime to hire an illegal immigrant. Well, conservative economic dogma considers the right to form contracts with whomever you wish to be sacrosanct. It is “the socialist society” according to the philosopher Robert Nozick, “which would have to forbid capitalist acts between consenting adults.” 

My point here is not to say one position is more right than the other. Drugs and immigration are, ultimately, very different things, and it’s the differences that explain why the analogy isn’t perfect. Citizenship, sovereignty, rule of law: These things are rendered meaningless if the distinction between legal and illegal immigration is meaningless. 

But the key similarity is important. Most opponents of the drug war came to their position because they consider the effort worthy in principle, but ultimately futile in the face of a more determined “enemy,” and a bit silly since the gains of winning aren’t that important to them. The burgeoning war against illegal immigration has already been preemptively surrendered by many for roughly the same reasons. What that says about America probably depends on what you think about illegal immigrants or drugs.

  —©2006 Tribune Media Services, Inc.


National Review Online - http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MzhjOTMyOGQwYmJhZDNhNWE4NWFmYjZiNGJiODc4MDE=


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Mexico; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aliens; bush; wod; wodlist
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To: FBD
Hamilton was a patriot to THIS country, and he was willing to get his neck stretched by signing onto the Declaration of Independence.

As many immigrants aspiring to citizenship could tell you, Hamilton didn't sign the Declaration of Independence.

21 posted on 05/17/2006 1:21:29 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Truth has become so rare and precious she is always attended to by a bodyguard of lies.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
We can't make it "militarized"? Who says?

It is militarized. But only on the Mexican side.
22 posted on 05/17/2006 2:45:05 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: neverdem
Some drug legalization advocates hang their position on a lot of moral preening about the absolute right of the individual to do what he wants. But many of the same people will then argue that it is—and should be—an outrageous crime to hire an illegal immigrant. Well, conservative economic dogma considers the right to form contracts with whomever you wish to be sacrosanct.

I support free trade ... but the right to form contracts no more illegitimizes border control than it illegitimizes my right to say who shall or shall not enter my home. America belongs to Americans ... a drug user's body belongs only to that drug user.

23 posted on 05/17/2006 3:36:01 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: neverdem
What If Mexicans Were Crack?

You'd have Libertarians real interested?

24 posted on 05/17/2006 3:45:06 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: AdamSelene235
You got me on that one. Thanks for setting me straight on that point. I know he was a signer of the Constitution, and I mistakenly thought he was also a signer of the Declaration of Independence.
But do think any of these pro-illegal yahoos with the Che Guevara posters care a whit about our Constitution?
-That was the point of Hamilton's quote.

BTW, your initial comment would seem to imply that you didn't like Hamilton...
What do you have against him, anyway?

Regards

25 posted on 05/17/2006 7:01:50 PM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD

No, I admire him greatly. I just wonder if the INS would let him in today.


26 posted on 05/17/2006 7:08:22 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Truth has become so rare and precious she is always attended to by a bodyguard of lies.)
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To: PaxMacian; WindMinstrel; philman_36; headsonpikes; cryptical; vikzilla; Quick1; gdani; ...

ping


27 posted on 05/18/2006 6:19:46 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: Wolfie
...you can’t defeat the laws of supply and demand.
Sure can't.
In these difficult times we send forth this Public Service Announcement...If you're intent on buying the (ahem) "illegal" drug marijuana at least buy American.

Just look for the "Grown in America" sticker on your next bag, sonny.
It's been specially designed and can only be seen when you're "chied".

28 posted on 05/18/2006 6:36:42 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Robertsll
That's because Bill Kristol is no conservative, he is a neo-conservative/New World Order Globalist.

I've been saying for years that neo-cons are liberals who are not pansies on foreign affairs. I've gotten responses ranging from "there is no such thing as neo-conservatism" to "you're a Jew-hater".

29 posted on 05/18/2006 10:08:14 AM PDT by jmc813 (The best mathematical equation I have ever seen: 1 cross + 3 nails= 4 given.)
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To: Wolfie; Mojave

Hey Wolfie, have you ever noticed that so many of the pro-drug war freepers from back in the day turned out to be total wusses on illegal immigration? Mojave's about the only one I can think of who isn't.


30 posted on 05/18/2006 10:11:12 AM PDT by jmc813 (The best mathematical equation I have ever seen: 1 cross + 3 nails= 4 given.)
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To: jmc813

I've noticed quite a few who have the "you can't arrested 12 million people" mentality when it comes to illegal aliens. The Prez included.


31 posted on 05/18/2006 10:28:00 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: neverdem
The Mexicans are unlike previous immigrants.

"The (fill in the blank) are unlike previous immigrants." This line is used with every new wave of immigration.

32 posted on 05/18/2006 11:14:05 AM PDT by JTN ("I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum.")
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To: FBD
The hoopla surrounding Mexican flags being waved at the protest marches is nonsense. You can find similar displays at marches celebrating anyone's cultural heritage. For example, St. Patrick's Day parades:

Conservatives often defend displays of the Confederate flag by southerners; a flag first waved in open rebellion to the United States. Why is it that the Confederate flag is okay, but waving the Mexican flag is considered high treason?

33 posted on 05/18/2006 11:28:16 AM PDT by JTN ("I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum.")
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To: JTN
"The (fill in the blank) are unlike previous immigrants." This line is used with every new wave of immigration.

Other immigrants effectively broke the umbilical cord from their home country because of sea travel over two oceans. Modern media, air travel and immigration from within the same hemisphere have transformed the situation. Add in historical grievance, especially from the Mexican War, marxist philosophy underpinning their politics and slowness of assimilation, and you have a recipe for disaster.

As Rodney King asked, "can't we all get along"? Well if you look at history, the answer is not likely very well.

34 posted on 05/18/2006 11:53:49 AM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: jmc813

Here you go.


35 posted on 05/18/2006 11:55:54 AM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: CWOJackson

LOL. I'll have to get back to you tomorrow on this thread. My lunch break was overextended as it is.


36 posted on 05/18/2006 12:08:00 PM PDT by jmc813 (The best mathematical equation I have ever seen: 1 cross + 3 nails= 4 given.)
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To: JTN
>"You can find similar displays at marches celebrating anyone's cultural heritage. For example, St. Patrick's Day parades..."<

-What a stupid analogy. I'm Irish, and I've been to St. Patrick Day Parades; they aren't promoting rights for illegal citizens from Ireland, or a Marxist/Socialist agenda.

>"Why is it that the Confederate flag is okay, but waving the Mexican flag is considered high treason?"<
These people have no affinity for this country, and apparently you don't get it. They are died in the wool Latin American Marxists, illegal entrants to this country, who are demanding full rights, which they ARE NOT ENTITLED TO.

Take a look at the Socialist banners, and the Che Guevara T-sirts and posters in the crowd: These people want:

"FULL RIGHTS FOR ALL IMMIGRANTS", and "Socialism and Liberation".

Take a look at the Che Guevara posters; you do realize Che was a violent Marxist revolutionary, don't you???


37 posted on 05/18/2006 6:26:57 PM PDT by FBD ("Rapid immigration is at odds with rapid assimilation.)
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To: FBD
What a stupid analogy. I'm Irish, and I've been to St. Patrick Day Parades; they aren't promoting rights for illegal citizens from Ireland, or a Marxist/Socialist agenda.

They're waving Irish flags. WHy aren't you condemning their lack of loyalty to this country? Could it be because you realize that the fact that they are waving those flags doesn't mean their loyalties are to a foreign country?

And what about those Confederate flags? Why are you silent on those? Those really can be seen as a sign of disloyalty. Have you ever heard the saying, "The south will rise again"?

These people have no affinity for this country, and apparently you don't get it. They are died in the wool Latin American Marxists, illegal entrants to this country, who are demanding full rights, which they ARE NOT ENTITLED TO. Take a look at the Socialist banners, and the Che Guevara T-sirts and posters in the crowd: These people want: "FULL RIGHTS FOR ALL IMMIGRANTS", and "Socialism and Liberation".

You find one picture of "Che" and one sign saying "Socialism and liberation" out of a crowd of hundreds of thousands and you think you've demonstrated a point? I see more American flags in those pictures than anything else.

They are...illegal entrants to this country

All of them? Now you're starting to sound like that nut Jack Cafferty on CNN. Wolf Blitzer pointed out to him that not all of the protesters are illegal immigrants and Cafferty responded, with a straight face, "How do you know?"

who are demanding full rights, which they ARE NOT ENTITLED TO.

Which rights are they not entitled to? Free expression? Freedom of religion? Of course they are entitled to full rights. Anyone under the jurisdiction of the United States government is entitled to full rights, whether he is breaking the law or not.

38 posted on 05/18/2006 8:42:29 PM PDT by JTN ("I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum.")
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To: JTN
>"Which rights are they not entitled to?"

-The right to vote for starters.
The right to citizenship.
The right to a free public education.
etc, etc, etc.


Go back to smoking your crack pipe, or whatever it was you were getting high on, before you pinged me.
39 posted on 05/18/2006 10:41:26 PM PDT by FBD ("Rapid immigration is at odds with rapid assimilation.)
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To: FBD
The right to vote for starters. The right to citizenship. The right to a free public education.

None of these things are exactly "rights". Privileges would be a better word. For example, if the legislature decides not to fund public education, then that is within both its legal and moral power. Citizen or not, legal immigrant or not, you have no right to be educated at the expense of the public. The notion that you do is ... what's the word ... socialist?

Go back to smoking your crack pipe, or whatever it was you were getting high on, before you pinged me.

This is what you're resorting to now? Very well. I accept your surrender.

40 posted on 05/18/2006 11:03:42 PM PDT by JTN ("I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum.")
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