Posted on 05/15/2006 7:45:36 PM PDT by bobsunshine
Today conservatives and Americans across this nation, especially those who voted for George W Bush, should be thankful for what we have accomplished and for having George Bush as President. My tolerance for the whiners who don’t get all they want, or who say the pace of getting America to become more responsive to conservative ideas is too slow, is totally used up. Tonight, when George Bush speaks his is going to discuss how we can take SOME steps towards getting a handle on immigration and the security threats it represents.
I want to give thanks to W for taking the war to the Taliban and Al Qaeda, and for not shrinking from his course when the French and Germans bawked, when the UN whimpered, when the left wailed and when the right ran away.
I want to thank him for protecting all our families and neighbors since 9-11.
I want to thank him for reducing taxes and pulling this economy together since my family just about went under due to the economic hits from 9-11, and now I am working a dream job exploring the solar system.
I want to thank W for protecting the lives of some of the embryos who otherwise would have become a product to harvest for spare cells (to make spare parts).
I want to thank W for making the education system accountable and force it to produce statistics on its performance.
Thanks also for giving my 80+year old parents a prescription drug plan so they can live out their lives with dignity and in the best health preventive medicine can offer. I know that at their age to fix things once their broken is much harder than keeping them from breaking in the first place.
Thank you as well to the immigrants who come here and extend the American fabric and re-establish respect for the family and the work ethic. I still believe working without papers is aking to driving a car which is not properly registered. While not legal, it pales next to the people I deal with everyday in my 75 mile commute on the busy and dangerous DC Beltway. For perspective, I do not thank all the drivers chatting on the phone, reading, eating, doing their face who risk my LIFE with their casualness. I am less concerned about the immigrant workers coming to do top notch work on my house than the insane drivers who could kill me or my family. Let’s not even discuss how little thanks I have for drunk drivers (and drunk is only a few drinks away).
I want to thank LJSTrata for putting up with me for so long and keeping this site going through its first Blogoversart (5/18/06).
I owe a big thanks to Powerline this week for naming us Blog of the Week - which is an extreme honor we will cherish.
I want to thank my kids and family for being who they are.
I do not have any words of thanks to he those who leak national secrets to the media because they cannot address their issues through our established political processes. None. Anomous leaks are not a badge of honor.
I have no words of thanks to those who are so frustrated they have turned on Bush when he needs our support, and threaten to sit out elections. Why would I have any thanks for that kind of action? I am thankful we avoided a President Gore and President Kerry. Gore would have lost his mind after 9-11 (look at how he handled the 2000 election). And Kerry would have been so confused about what to do he would have signed legislation beforing vetoing it.
I am thankful for our new allies in Iraq, Afgahnistan, the UAE, Qatar and Pakistan. They are not perfect allies, but they are better than enemies. Just like Bush is 100 fold better than a manic Gore or a confused Kerry. I thank Bush for doing all he did, and doing it despite the naysayers and quitters, the moaners and whiners, and especially the serial surrenderers. Thanks George Bush. And no thanks goes to anyone who gives us nothing on immigration because they could not get all they wanted. I am tired of the zero sum game. It is a game for fools.
You are so right, I swear some here would not have been satisfied if Bush had said we're going to shoot first and ask questions later. They would complain about the ask questions later part.
Nope - regardless of the "last time you saw that poll"...the reality is at the end of that poll over 70% of those on FR said they would NOT sit out the election.
Sorry facts matter (now run off and get that job with the MSM on helping them make up polls).
But, I wasn't happy with the guest worker part.
From what I've read on this subject, this is the major problem people have. Now I have....issues with it but the question is what do we do about it? Yes yes I know deport them...who are they, where are they, how do we find they?
Do you really believe that?
1.9 billion is sufficient for the border?? You really think that? When we spend 2 billion every 2 weeks in Iraq? Are you for open borders? A single North America nation? It sounds like it.
There are two issues with the guest worker program that I see.
First, whether you think there should be a complete amnesty or forced deportations of all illegals or anything in between, none of those will work as long as the border remains a sieve. The NG troops will help some, but deploying troops in 2-4 week shifts and then deploying them out gives them limited effectiveness - as soon as they start learning the ropes, they are gone and more border newbies arrive for their stint. So 6,000 troops at any given time would probably be equivalent to 1,000 seasoned BP agents.
And if we talk amnesty or a guest worker program while the border is insecure, we will get even more illegal crossings - we saw that as soon as Bush started seriously talking about a guest worker program. So this talk encourages more illegals well before any border security improvements.
And there is one other fundamental problem with a guest worker program - just look at what happened to Europe with their guest workers, where you create a chronic underclass. It would be better to increase legal immigration, IMO, than to have a guest worker program for that very reason. But that too needs to wait until border security is in place.
Too bad that poll isn't available for conformation of your claim anymore.
And if we talk amnesty or a guest worker program while the border is insecure, we will get even more illegal crossings
Agree. Remember the Reagan amnesty program, that worked out real well.
Secure the borders 1st! Then we can figure out what comes next.
Which means that Bush can lobby the Senate all he wants for the compromis(ing) immigration bill, but the GOP House will hold unless a few RINOs peel off and join the Dems.
And if Bush is relying on Dems and a few RINO turncoats to get his immigration agenda passed, that, if anything, should reveal that he is on the wrong side of the issue here.
This new poll shows that 67.76 of respondents don't like Bush's ideas. I'm sure after it's removed the claim will be made that a full 70% approved.
Agreed. Including me.
I'm just sick that people think abandoning the party will help anything. There's not a democrat alive who will do anything about this issue.
And that, quite frankly, is what annoys the crap out of me about the debate raging on FR.
Those of us who want the border secured first are treated by many as some kind of unappeasable Bircher Stormfronter types - for simply asking that we learn from history and not repeat the same mistake that Reagan made. I used to think that one key difference between Dems and Pubbies is that Pubbies tend to learn from their mistakes and Dems just want to do more of what is failing because of their dogmatic inflexibility to think through issues. After watching Bush last night, I wonder how true that still is.
Let's learn from what was probably Reagan's greatest mistake, and secure the borders first. Then we can have a good donnybrook over what comes next - but at least whatever compromise comes out of that battle has a chance of working.
That's a two-edged sword. A lot of folks here on FR grumbled as Bush did a lot of stuff that was not conservative in nature - from education to entitlements to spending - but they still voted for Bush in 2004. But Bush will never run for re-election again, and the Bush Admin needs to realize that they can push the base too far, and they apparently haven't gotten the message, despite clear polling to the contrary, that they are on the brink of doing just that. And it isn't like wanting the border secured first is some kind of irrational xenophobic tendency in the base - Reagan's amnesty showed you cannot have any effective resolution to illegal immigration as long as you have not secured the borders.
So I do agree that people need to support the GOP House members this election as well as conservative Senators. But in turn, the folks on FR and elsewhere who are yelling at the dissidents on Bush's immigration plans need to instead yell at the Bush Admin for not getting the message. The solidity of the GOP is at stake, and they are driving a wedge into it with each passing failure to listen to what the base is saying.
The reality is GWB is looking at a comprehensive way at dealing with the current immigration problem (both legal and illegal). Only a fool would suggest this isn't needed.
Only a bigger fool would suggest deporting all of them! - Because in the adult world, adults much choose between options that are actually available! (not pie in the sky BS).
You are clearly a chicken little who simply wants to why and cry and threaten to take your useless and not-needed ball home! (go ahead, see ya, the adults are still going to stay in the game).
GWB offered a common sense approach to a 40 year in the making problem. He did not give or offer amnesty (like R. Reagan did).....he suggested a common sense temporary workers program.....he clearly stated the need to secure our borders further.
Another reality is since GWB has been in office we have increased the number of our border guards along with their budgets.
Furthermore, more is happening on our borders with regard to national security then can openly be talked about (and for very good reasons). Think NSA Op that was outed and now this country is less secure! (yet you foolishly want these policies outed...just so you'll KNOW! Who cares about security...at least silly old you will know about the. Pathetic).
GWB is a man of tremendous character and of a quiet and steadfast resolve that is terribly lacking in most people today.
And please get off your "polls". Leaders don't lead by polls (go elect Bill Clinton if you want that).
Fool? Here is the key issue that I see here - IMO Bush is dead wrong to push for a guest worker program now. It is not irrational or xenophobic to want the border secured before addressing the illegals already here or a guest worker program - Reagan's failed amnesty showed we cannot deal with illegals effectively as long as the border remains a sieve. And both Congressman Tancredo and Congressman King from New York agreed on this last night - and King is no fire-breathing red-stater.
Bush needs to drop any talk of changing the current status of illegals or having a guest worker program until we have improved border security significantly. Anything else will simply encourage more illegals to come here - crossings jumped as soon as Bush started seriously discussing a guest worker program. So quit calling your opponents fools when they are wanting a rational first step taken that learns from Reagan's greatest single mistake. Unless you want to be like the Dems and never learn from mistakes.
Once the border is more secure, THEN we can hash out a compromise as to what needs to be done with the illegals already here - and guess what? At that point, the compromise will have a chance of working. As things stand now, nothing, from complete amnesty to forced deportation, will work at all with our open borders.
By 2004, the annual inflow of foreign-born persons was down 24% from its all-time high in 2000, according to the Pew Hispanic Center analysis of multiple datasets collected by the Census Bureau and other government agencies.
http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=53
And second, from the Pew report you cited:
In 2004, migration bounced back to exceed 1.2 million.
And we have seen plenty of anecdotal evidence that illegal immigration has increased considerably since Bush started talking seriously about a guest worker program - so I would venture the current inflow is comparable to the 1.5 million peak during the Clinton years.
And third, from Red Blooded American's link regarding workforce investigations:
Employers of unauthorized alien investigations..................Criminal arrests: 159
And that is consistent with what Spiff has posted, and that is the primary trend being discussed about the Bush Admin dropping off enforcement of companies that hire illegals.
Once the border is more secure, THEN we can hash out a compromise as to what needs to be done with the illegals already here - and guess what? At that point, the compromise will have a chance of working. As things stand now, nothing, from complete amnesty to forced deportation, will work at all with our open borders.
First off I called it foolishness that a segment on here (FR) are not intellectually honest enough to admit that good people can come to differing conclusions on this 40 year in the making problem.
The notion that GWB is a sell out or doesn't care about security, blah, blah, blah...is all foolishness! Plain and simple.
Secondly I complete disagree that we should ignore the 12 million illegals that are currently here - No, we should address them at the same time as we are addressing the border. Those that have criminal records (outside of simply being illegal) should be acted on and removed. Those who are illegal and have no additional criminal record should start the process of either becoming a supporting citizen of this nation, with policies that to a degree demand or influence assimilation, or they should leave!
Furthermore the need for an updated temporary workers permit system is sorely needed and must be addressed now. Not down the road.
These issues go hand in hand with border security. Lastly many seem under the false impression that the vast majority of illegals simply "sneak" across the border in the dead of night.....this is a portion of them without question...but a large portion also come here legally! through workers permits and then never leave!
Securing the border does nothing regarding this large segment of illegals.
GWB laid out a common sense plan to this 40 year in the making problem last night. It should be looked at on the whole not simply through a narrow view of only the border first.
That is like Democrats demanding the deficit being removed before talking about tax cuts!. No, they go hand in hand, reducing taxes will expand the economy (rising tide lifts all boats) and thus the expansion plays a large role in reducing / removing deficits.
And yes, it is also complete foolishness for some to be questioning this CIC "motives". If they trust this man to send women and children off to war...they should at the very least trust the man's motives when it comes to domestic issues (other wise they fall right in line behind the Dem's when it is convenient...that GWB can't be trusted....Just as DEM's say he can't be trusted regarding WMDs, Iraq, etc, etc).
So you would fail to learn from Reagan's mistakes with amnesty?
Securing the border does nothing regarding this large segment of illegals.
It does, however, keep it from getting much larger - which is exactly what will happen if we have any guest worker or amnesty legislation before border security is drastically improved. And that is the entire point.
No, it's not unfair. It's honest. I notice that you and others who don't want comparisons made to the Berlin Wall, react to the image. You don't deny you want a wall, but want to pretend it's for a more benign purpose. In fact, the purpose is identical, which is to control the flow of people across a border.
Throughout human history, going back to the Great Wall of China and Hadrian's Wall in England, such walls were always militarized. Always. A wall across our southern border would be also, and that's precisely the goal of advocates for a wall.
And don't you think the wording and image of "mass roundups and deportations", even though I think that's what SHOULD be done, evokes a middle-of-the-night knock in Nazi Germany that is unfair also?
Once again, you admit you want mass roundups and deportations, but are concerned about the image. I didn't say it evoked a "middle-of-the-night knock," you did. Clearly you know the public relations nightmare mass roundups would create, and you don't want to be thought of as being on the villianous side in this drama. It's a thoroughly dishonest position to take, because you want the President or someone else to do your dirty work for you.
You can sit back here on the internet agitating for something that would be disasterous on several levels, yet never get tagged as the real villian. You and your ilk are cowards, plain and simple.
Well said.
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