Posted on 05/15/2006 7:45:36 PM PDT by bobsunshine
You must not listen to Lou Dobbs very often.
yes, lets be serious...1.9 billion for border security....100's of billions for Iraq....that makes sense...
We are a magnet for those seeking liberty and prosperiety, and IMHO those who profit from paying substandard wages to illegals are far more to blame than the POTUS
We have 12,000 BP agents compared to the NYPD's 35,000 personnel. We spent $11 to $18 billion a year enforcing the no-fly zones in Iraq. We are not serious about border security. Any crowing about the percentage increases in BP agents and funding is just PR and does not meet our real requirements.
My daddy told me that you NEVER let your opponent beat you now matter what. You NEVER win by losing. You win by winning.
Clearly, this is where the brunt of the blame lies. But you must understand that having 500,000 illegal immigrants marching down the streets of Los Angeles with businesses giving the thumbs up and law enforcement / INS doing nothing is more than a little frustrating.
We have had a major influx of a foreign population in to this nation, and not only is nothing being done about it, it appears as though it is being encouraged, Again, more than a little frustrating.
And while you enjoy calling people names and such for not toeing the line, some people find that mass demonstrations by a foreign population on our soil a little scary. I was horrified, and I live several thousand miles away from Los Angeles.
Most people are demanding something needs to be done NOW because it appears that we are running out of later. Consider it knee-jerk or whatever, but I have always been of the mindset that conservatives liked slow progress, maintaining traditional values and mores, and being a patriot to ones own country.
Did you honestly expect a different reaction to a sudden mass demonstrations of foreign nationals, demanding things that by law they have no entitlement to?
And I think the real sticking point here is that guys like you only see the reaction as attacks against Bush. This isn't about Bush. Bush just happens to be sitting in the White House while this matter reaches a crisis. Bush is the target because he is the face of the government that everyone knows and recognizes. Like it or not, people here and elsewhere think he has the power to wave a magic wand and make everything better (like that ridiculous nonsense about when Bush got to New Orleans after Katrina or that moronic My Pet Goat / 911 crap the left loves to spout).
I'd like to apologize for it, but unfortunately this is simply human nature. If you are getting audited by the IRS, you typically blame / hate the auditor, not the institution. Human nature.
What I'd really like to see is both sides of this issue cut the name calling crap and wait for the dust to settle. If you need to vent here or elsewhere, do it and get it out of your system. I did a few days ago and now I can approach this issue a little more rationally.
And I have the feeling that this will be skimmed and taken the wrong way (long posts usually are) and I will be flamed. Well, have at it.
APf
Who cares what Lou Dobbs has to say about anything?
Yes, it does. Good evening.
I think I could watch James Carville and Paul Begala before Lou Dobbs, because at least James Carville and Begala are consistant
They are coming because they want a better life and more opportunity. We have a long term problem. We share a border with a poor, third world country of 107 million with a burgeoning population with a median age of 25. 40% of the people live below their poverty level. We also have thousands more transiting that country from even poorer countries in Central America. If you think the numbers are high now, wait another 10 to 20 years when the demographic and economic pressures increase. They are going to try to enter the US regardless of whether we try to enforce employer sanctions and issue ID cards to the already up to 20 million already here.
Being poor and jobless in America is better than being poor and jobless in Mexico. Moreover, there is a huge support netork within the US to give them shelter, food, and jobs.
According to the the 2000 census figures, there are 9 million Mexican-born residents of the US with 4 million in California alone, i.e., about one in every eight residents of California was born in Mexico. In fact, there are 9 million foreign born residents of California or one in every four people in the state. Our national Hispanic population is around 40 million. I believe these figures are seriously understated.
We are not going to legislate our way out of the problem using employer sanctions and tracking systems. The economic and demographic pressures are too great to be contained by other than border security (including rounding up people who overstay their visas), including fences as appropriate security wise.
Mexico is encouraging the flow of migrants to America because it acts as a pressure release valve for political dissent and it is the largest source of revenue, even more than the sale of oil. The tidal wave is just beginning. The more we continue to delude ourselves that we can control the flood of illegal immigrants through employer sanctions, guest worker programs, and legalization of those already here, the worse it will get.
If you were poor and undeducated in Mexico or Central America and knew that there was no hope or opportunity of improving your situation, wouldn't you want to step across a relatively undefended border and enter the richest, freest country in the world that has millions of your compatriots already living there? The bottom line is that they are not going home and more are on the way in greater numbers. It is common sense.
We could put our entire military on the Southern Border and they will find a way to come here from Canada.
Now you are being silly. Do you really think that 150,000 Mexicans and others from Latin America a month are going to transit Canada? Why aren't the Haitians doing it now?
We are a magnet for those seeking liberty and prosperiety, and IMHO those who profit from paying substandard wages to illegals are far more to blame than the POTUS
POTUS is responsible for enforcing the immigration laws we now have on the books. He is the CIC responsible for protecting our international borders. The buck stops there.
"And I think the real sticking point here is that guys like you only see the reaction as attacks against Bush. This isn't about Bush. Bush just happens to be sitting in the White House while this matter reaches a crisis. Bush is the target because he is the face of the government that everyone knows and recognizes. Like it or not, people here and elsewhere think he has the power to wave a magic wand and make everything better (like that ridiculous nonsense about when Bush got to New Orleans after Katrina or that moronic My Pet Goat / 911 crap the left loves to spout)."
If the excuse for all this Bush bashing over this issue is because of perception, then you have done a better job explaining my points better than me. I expect rationally thinking conservatives not to justify their hatred for Bush ...
"because he is the face of the government that everyone knows and recognizes."
I leave that simple minded thinking to liberals who go through life acting on emotions instead of reality and common sense.
Thanks for making my point
Obviously Peach does.
If the Senate bill passes, the GOP will be in permanent minority status. As the demonstrators chanted a few weeks ago, "Today we march, tomorrow we vote." It was the the Dems who addressed the crowds. Kennedy, Moran, and Hillary. If our political leaders of both parties want to pander to the Latino vote, the US has jumped the shark and we are on the glide path to a third world country. Without true border security, we will be overwhelmed in a few decades.
You may leave it to whomever you wish. Human beings are pretty easy to predict. However, I think you missed my point by a longshot. It wasn't meant to be used as a cudgel against people that you disagree with. Sorry I wasn't more clear.
APf
Even if the Senate passes a bill, it will go to conference to be reconciled with the House bill. Thanks to what the POTUS proposed tonight, a more conservative bill is likely to come our of conference.
And you seem to be a charter member.
We can only hope that the House bill is the only one to survive this debacle. I can recall Bush signing McCain-Feingold and saying he had serious reservations about parts of it being unconstitutional. Still he signed it. He depended upon the Supreme Court to the dirty work for him. It didn't work out that way and now we have restrictions on political speech.
Our job is to cut through this BS and not surrender to "What Polls say we think"
Predictable human beings are uninformed human beings, just what the liberals want
bttt
Yikes, I must be tired, ..... dismiss = Accept
Good Night all
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