Posted on 05/15/2006 4:13:02 PM PDT by devane617
Edited on 05/15/2006 4:38:26 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
I searched but did not see a thread already open for tonights speech. I think this is the most important speech the President will probably make for the remainder of his term.
Mod Note:
This could turn into a whack-a-troll thread. All immigration trolls that would like to participate should post here. It'll be interesting to see if we mods can whack the trolls faster than they can sign up new accounts.
Jim
Wow...I got about 30 comments before someone called me a Bushbot.
That's gotta be some kind of a record!!!
By that "reasoning", our country needs the illicit drugs that come here illegally.
"Must have a comprehensive bill...No, we need to stop the flow first and then address those already here illegally.
"
Requiring a comprehensive bill is the kiss of death for the whole thing. It means the final result will be an unworkable monstrosity. Show me first a wall, and some troops, and then we can discuss the rest.
Agreed.
Last year many of us were yelling about ii, as we were for the past several years. It just so happens that the majority of conservatives have caught up with us on this most important issue.
Really now, by waving the Mexican flag, telling us we were the illegal occupiers and demanding more stuff. Wow, sorry, I don't suffer from the Stockholm Syndrome. Better luck selling that drivel on the next poster.
"How do you figure that? I've been big time for real border security and deporting illegals and no more light weight tactics with them. This speach is all the things conservatives have been wanting."
I think the BorderBots would disagree with you.
They wanted a fence or a wall, from sea to sea. They didn't get one. They got a "virtual fence", which isn't a fence. Wags have been saying all day that if a virtual fence is good enough, why not put one around the White House? They're not impressed.
And the BorderBots have been saying, all along, NO AMNESTY, not NOW anyway. Tonight, they're saying that guest worker is amnesty, or a "time bomb inside a Trojan horse", as one of them put it.
I'm not a BorderBot. In fact, I think that the Latino invasion is the key vector by which Roe v. Wade will be overturned, and I care most about that. That said, I do listen carefully to what these folks have been saying...not just saying but SCREAMING for months now. And what I heard the President say tonight was almost the reverse of what they wanted. He proposed sending in a few troops, who can be withdrawn, adding a few more cops, a "virtual" (as opposed to real) fence, and guest worker.
For weeks before the speech I've been reading and hearing the BorderBots saying HELL NO to all of these things that I heard the President say he was going to push for tonight.
"What basis do you have to support your assertion that millions of registered conservatives will not vote because of a speach that outlined most all of the things that those same conservatives have wanted to hear Bush say on the border."
Because the speech said just about the OPPOSITE of what Border-focused conservatives have been saying about the border. I am practically an open-borders-Catholicize-America Republican, but I do HEAR what these folks have been saying. And because I think that getting conservative command of the Supreme Court and winning the overseas wars are the most important thing, I have come to the conclusion that holding the coalition together so that we can do those things REQUIRES appeasing the BorderBots (I use the term affectionately) on the border issue. They are as passionate about it as I was about Terri Schiavo and Miers. I sense the same desperation, frustration and implacable anger in what they say as I have felt on my issue. I know they are no more likely to be duped on this issue of burning concern to them than I was on Schiavo and Miers.
Given that, I know - because I've listened to them so closely and don't want to see the Republicans crash and burn, that unless the Reconciliation Committee somehow scoops out a fence without guest worker, that these people are feeling utterly betrayed, and a lot of them are going to stay home. When Jeb Bush didn't save Terri Schiavo, he lost any possibility of my ever voting for him for President. Had Miers not been withdrawn and replaced by a reliably certain pro-life conservative, I would have left the GOP. Issues of principle override concerns of party.
I see that the BorderBots here and elsewhere are consumed by the Mexican invasion as a matter of principle. I think they're defeated and discouraged and enraged tonight. And that's what I see here on FR too, a torrent of it. I don't think a lot of these people are going to come back. If I felt as they did, I wouldn't.
"The idea of that is just crazy. If anything, those conservatives who want real border security, like me, "border bots" as you want to call them, are saying what I did tonight, 'It's about frikken time!'".
That's not what I see here or hear elsewhere among the BorderBots I watch. I said up-thread that every BorderBot will ultimately decide for himself. Perhaps you've decided that this is what you wanted. Look at your fellow BorderBots waving the bloody shirt here. And believe them when they say what they are feeling. They are telling the truth.
"THAT is what the millions of conservatives who want border security are saying."
No, it isn't. That's what you want them to be saying. But they are saying what I have reported them as saying.
You want to believe that Bush hit a homerun. And the opinion polls will show him coming back by a FEW percentage points.
If you're right, he'll surge back up into the 40s.
If I'm right, he'll stay mired in the low 30s.
"The only people who hated this speach and don't like what he said in it are liberals who aren't voting Republican anyway."
That's almost certainly not true.
The President made his points well and without unnecessary rhetoric, and to my ear did not really alter anything he has said all along and should be supported. He has never supported amnesty.
I'm not a Tancredo fan, but I do find it odd that people that have been savaging his and Dobbs' reputations suddenly are claiming their reactions were different then they were.
It's pretty simple to settle this, though, for those that believe they were content with the proposals and with the Prez 100%. Watch the reruns tonight.
Tancredo was with King on O'Reilly. They both said guest worker/amnesty was dead on arrival. No bill was better then the Senate bill.
Maybe we can get information on how to build a wall from the Chineese - they have a big-un that has stood for centuries...
After all, they owe us for the weapons and computer technology Bubba gave them....
Please read my subsequent posts in which I apologise for my mistaken faux pas and clarify. If you choose to ignore that, well so be it. I certainly intended no racist meaning.
So what about the billions of other people who would like to enter the US to work while they wait in line for citizenship, they don't get to enter and wait here. WHERE ARE THEIR VISAS?
Its a reward for jumping the border and the line. Clear and simple.
The current law post 9/11 is a joke. I want a law that addresses the times not some old law set up by whoever and their cronies.
I agree with Dobbs on a lot of his immigration stance, but make no mistake, he is a lefty socialist. He was pretty measured after the speech, but earlier today, he and McCafferty were really trashing the prez in a very unprofessional way. Really pi$$ed me off.
I may not totally agree with the president on immigration, but I don't trash him and it P'O's me when others take cheap shots.
Need to repeal the 14th for that one, know of any takers
Did they do that last year? What in particular changed?
And as I also said, I was TOLD that Tancredo was a co-founder of the Minutemen, and I also said that if not, he is at least very supportive of them and talks about them a lot. How about you and others here get your facts straight about what Bush said in the speach tonight and quit putting words in his mouth. It's the lamest of all things to try and infer that someone is wrong in what they say because they make grammar mistakes when typing on the fly very fast. Don't be so lame.
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