President's Immigration speech - Live thread

me | 05/15/2006 | me

[devane617]

I searched but did not see a thread already open for tonights speech. I think this is the most important speech the President will probably make for the remainder of his term.

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Mod Note:
This could turn into a whack-a-troll thread. All immigration trolls that would like to participate should post here. It'll be interesting to see if we mods can whack the trolls faster than they can sign up new accounts.
Jim

[patriciaruth]

Thanks for the Scriptures. I was hunting for Matthew 25 last week and couldn't find it.

[flaglady47]

Anyone that would throw away 15 years of conservative gains for their pet issue is not a conservative, especially when the President is responding.

"Ah, yet another Bushbot/RINO steps out of the shadows."

[devane617]

Great observations. He is cozy, and fence-sits on many issues. Sometimes it seems he gets his program notes/marching orders from the WH each day. I think Rush has lost his past appeal to many including me. I listen daily, but find myself agreeing with him much less than when he appeared independent of the WH. Again, much of it has to do with the required nature of his security. He has forgotten what it's like to be a grassroots conservative, instead of his very limited elite circle.

[CharlesWayneCT]

Amnesty means not paying for a crime.

The 'crime' in this case was crossing the border illegally.

The "deport them" crowd just wants to send them back across the border. That would be "amnesty", because it doesn't punish them for thier crime. (sending them back isn't punishing them for the crime, it's just stopping them from continuing the crime -- it's like if someone is siphoning your gas, and you make them stop but don't shoot them, you have given them "amnesty").

Bush wants to make them pay a fine. That's punishment for the crime. We can argue over what an appropriate payment is for the crime, but at least he's got a punishment in store for them.

Then, he wants to give them visas to stay here while they wait in line for citizenship. That's not amnesty, it's a visa program. Or you can say he's rewarding them for their illegal behavior.

Much like if you drive 90 mph in a 60 mph zone. You do it for 4 hours, and then a cop pulls you over, and gives you a ticket (if he didn't, it would be amnesty). But you've also BEEN REWARDED, because during that 4 hours you got a LOT further than those who drove 60. To be "fair", the cop should make you sit on the side of the road until enough time passed to make up for your speeding.

But the cop can't afford to do that, he's got a job. And it really wouldn't make sense to make you sit around, as "fair" as it would be. In the same way, it just doesn't make sense to send them home if we are going to let them back later.

[TexasPatriot8]

I don't know. I'm as conservative as they come. On non-political boards when politics come up I'm called a fanatic Christian zealot, etc so on. And I've been ripping Bush six ways from Sunday on his lack of any kind of border policy, yet I voted for him both times and if he was the Republican candidate again, I'd vote for him again because he's better than any democrat that would get the nomination. I am pleased with this speach and it's a good starting point for REAL border security. The journey of 1000 miles starts with one step and this is a good first step if this speach is brought to fruition.

Anyone who attacks someone who wants REAL border security and wants to kick out every stinking illegal, frankly, they can kiss mine. But at the same time, I'm not going to rip into Bush because he didn't go as far as I'd of gone, which would be to put a few Army divisions on the border, build a wall, lock up all illegals in tent jails for a few weeks before deportation like around Phoenix, and tell Fox that if he didn't get his people under control, we would have a situation. Bush didn't go that far, but he certainly didn't say anything I can disagree with. I heard the speach live, then read it too. I'm flabbergasted by the people here who claim to be "conservatives" yet rip Bush and tear this speach apart. I have to say, they must be the kind of people people who, like my Dad always says, would b***h if you hung them with a new rope. That's my take.

[nopardons]

Then everyone here on FR, who went nutso over the Dubai bit, agreeing completely with Chuckles, is exactly the same. Yet, when I posted THAT, I was told, in no uncertain terms, that oh noooooooooooooooooooo, good old Chuckles was 100% right on that and so were they...the "broken clock" thingy, and on and on, in the same vein.

I guess it all depends upon whether old Chuckles agrees with your position, or not. LOL

[Palladin]

6000 NG on the southern border...that's about 3 per mile.

No problemo, man. They'll just stretch big long bungee cords in between them and slingshot the Mexicans back home!

[Mojave]

Anyone that would throw away 15 years of conservative gains for their pet issue is not a conservative

That describes the OBL.

[DCPatriot]

As I've indicated on my profile page, I consider myself a staunch conservative, but I am hopelessly liberal on the immigration matter.

Like it or not, this country needs these people that have come here illegally...or they wouldn't be allowed to stay.

My own local county blatantly coddles the illegal...but right now is blanketing the area looking for drivers not buckled up.

Up is down...left is right.

[caryatid]

... we truly are doomed ...

At least you got that right!

You may call my post [made partly with tongue in cheek] "stupid", if you like ... but many [other than the diehard Bushbots] would probably agree that it is more substantive and shows more reasonable forethought than much of what we heard in the President's speech tonight.

I am pretty thoroughly disgusted with Bush at this point. IMO the only things he has gotten right are the tax cuts and refusing to sign on to the Kyoto environmentalist whacko thing.

Probably the only thing that could redeem Bush in my sight would be for him to resign and let Dick Cheney spend the next three years cleaning up his mess.

[A.Hun]

Did you miss the millions of illegal foreign nationals that took to the streets last month and shut down several major cities?

They took to the streets for one reason....to counter you guys calling for them to be deported. I still contend that illegal immigration is no more of a crisis than it was last year.....a huge problem, but not an emergency, and certainly not worth helping Dems take power.

[TexasPatriot8]

What in the world are you talking about? What were you watching? Tancredo and Dobbs both said they liked the speach? For Pete's sake, all those things Bush said in the speach are things Tancredo has been calling for on the floor of the House. People on here have already posted how they heard what Tancredo and Dobbs said about the speach and how they said they supported it.

[RegulatorCountry]

"It's not clear who started the rumor that Dobbs liked the speech but they are certainly in error."

Just micromanaging the media spin cycle ... made it to the 11:00 news on the east coast without the hoi polloi blowing up too badly. It helps to create the impression that several of their "leaders" approve. Yes, I'm rather cynical about the originator of that claim about Tancredo and Dobbs. A ringer if you ask me.

[Earthdweller]

"Why did I listen? Maybe a faint hope this man would be true to his oath? Just a glimmering thought he would do what best for his nation?"

Yes I believe you are right. I'm glad the man came out tonight. Thank God for Americans that still love America.

[Richard Kimball]

Heard an interesting take on ABC Radio of all things. The announcer said that there is an odd coalition building on this. First, the Leftists and the Business conservatives want the illegal aliens in. The leftists because they believe they have a right to be here, and the business conservatives for the wages. The social conservatives and the liberals want them out. The social conservatives because they believe in following the law and because they believe they're destructive to culture, and the liberals because they're putting a strain on social services and taking jobs of lower skilled people, depressing wages.

I was surprised to hear an ABC commentator use the word "leftist", but beyond that, I thought he made a good point. Basically, there could be some VERY odd political coalitions building out of this.

[CharlesWayneCT]

So let's stop them from crossing the border, send back those who are committing all those crimes, and all those who are on welfare, and keep those that are working and supporting themselves and otherwise doing what a "good immigrant" would do to gain citizenship.

Why throw out the baby with the bathwater?

[Rte66]

It was Andy Devine. Jingles.

[processing please hold]

Illegal,lawbreaking aliens should never get citizenship. That's rewarding criminality.

[nopardons]

These people don't care! The cut off your nose to spite your facers, here, would much rather get NOTHING, then get most of what they claim to want.