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China rocked by 'sandpaper' chip fraud
vnunet.com ^ | 15 May 2006 | Simon Burns

Posted on 05/15/2006 10:14:55 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum

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To: Toddsterpatriot; Mase; expat_panama

How can this be? I thought we shipped our chip industry to the Chinese.


21 posted on 05/15/2006 11:33:28 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I wonder if he is being punished for the forgery and theft... or the discovery of such? I'll bet it is more the latter.


22 posted on 05/15/2006 11:34:57 AM PDT by Hop A Long Cassidy
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To: 1rudeboy

Or was it our sandpaper industry?


23 posted on 05/15/2006 11:41:22 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Why are protectionists so bad at math?)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
Everytime I look, I find another semiconductor manufacturing facility in either Chandler, Arizona or Austin, Texas (or in the case of Freescale, both). And the FReeper here that claimed to be an "expert" on such matters is becoming more and more quiet.

It's mildly frustrating . . . if I had believed him instead of looking for myself, I'd be well on the way to becoming a doom & gloomer.

24 posted on 05/15/2006 11:47:49 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

This guy is going to become an involuntary organ donor.


25 posted on 05/15/2006 12:06:58 PM PDT by BJClinton (Forget the fence, annex Mexico.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
The now-cancelled Hanxin 5 was to be a system-on-a-chip which would combine a CPU with DSP functions.

Did this reporter even bothering to look up what DSP stands for? (Digital Signal PROCESSOR).

A DSP is a CPU with on chip DtoA and AtoD. The CPU architecture is different as it is optimized for a different task. But none of those changes are part of the definition of DSP.

Anyhow the fact that 100 people were involved points out a giant weekness in chinese culture. Excesive respect for authority. It's understandable as lack of respect for authority has been a capital crime for thousands of years.

26 posted on 05/15/2006 12:17:02 PM PDT by Dinsdale
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To: 1rudeboy; Toddsterpatriot
And the FReeper here that claimed to be an "expert" on such matters is becoming more and more quiet.

I wonder if this was the same FReeper who claimed that China graduates 300,000,000 engineers every year. You'd think with that much talent available these guys could create a real chip of their own.

27 posted on 05/15/2006 12:31:07 PM PDT by Mase
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To: Mase; 1rudeboy
I wonder if this was the same FReeper who claimed that China graduates 300,000,000 engineers every year.

Poor old superiorslots. I wonder who he is now? I hear the neo-cons did him in. Or maybe it was his poor math skills?

28 posted on 05/15/2006 12:35:17 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Why are protectionists so bad at math?)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Not the one I'm thinking of . . . I simply don't want to mention his name because then I'd feel obligated to ping him.


29 posted on 05/15/2006 12:57:51 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy; Arjun; All
...I thought we shipped our chip industry to the Chinese...

Someone correct me if I err, but as I understand it our old cheap chip making industry got off-shored, while our high tech chip development and production industry is alive and well in the US.   Last time I looked at a mother board, all the diode/power regulator chips were made in China, and all the processors were domestic.

That's a recipe for a huge 'trade deficit'.  We keep exporting last year's chip designs to the cheap shops, and they keep paying for the patent rights with low tech chips.  Some people (Bernanke included) say this trade-gap can't go on forever, but they don't say why.  Personally, I don't think we'll have anything to fear from the Chinese chip designers for a long time.

30 posted on 05/15/2006 1:07:43 PM PDT by expat_panama (There are 10 kinds of freepers; them that manage numbers with a computer, and them that don't.)
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To: Polybius

That's a good one.


31 posted on 05/15/2006 1:30:52 PM PDT by moose2004 (You Can Run But You Can't Hide!)
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To: moose2004
will lock this guy up for the rest of his life, that's if he's lucky.

If he is healthy and his organs are proper matches for some Westerner looking for a heart or liver, well...

32 posted on 05/15/2006 2:40:21 PM PDT by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: expat_panama
Some people (Bernanke included) say this trade-gap can't go on forever

It can and will go on so long as the American economy is stronger than the rest and investment money is safer in America than elsewhere. "Trade deficit" is the flip side of the foreign capital flooding into the US to provide more production capacity and jobs. Trade deficit is that capital.We are investing in American industry when we buy imports over and above the value of the American exports that are purchased by people in other lands.

33 posted on 05/15/2006 2:48:33 PM PDT by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: ThanhPhero
"Trade deficit" is the flip side of the foreign capital flooding into the US to provide more production capacity and jobs....

There are more and more of us on these threads who understand the balance of trade and how important freedom is for prosperity. 

Some don't, or won't.  They're the forces of doom and darkness, whimpering for someone to protect them.  Maybe you've noticed how some people can object to having foreigners invest in American companies (because they don't want foreign control), and then they can turn right around and also object to Americans buying this very same control of foreign companies.  It's this same false logic that let's them first complain that US companies are moving too many jobs from the US to Mexico, and then they complain that US companies are making too many people move from Mexican high unemployment to America's low unemployment.

 IMHO the bottom line is that the forces of doom and darkness are not a problem.  This world will always have some people who are goofy.  Sometimes I worry that they might be getting too powerful, but when I see more and more posts like yours I know that our side is winning.

34 posted on 05/15/2006 4:06:11 PM PDT by expat_panama (There are 10 kinds of freepers; them that manage numbers with a computer, and them that don't.)
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To: 2banana
Communism doesn't work ___________________________________________________________ It does work if you have help on the outside.


China Spy Club

35 posted on 05/15/2006 5:53:24 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: expat_panama

The problem with economics is that it is a terribly boring subject and movers-and-shakers kinds of people can't handle it.Two presidents since 1900 have actually understood it, Coolidge and Reagan. JFK has to be given credit for at least listening to the right people. Most politicians and most people who work with money and finance do not understand economics and that includes Bernanke. They had economics courses in University but it was just their requireds that they had to get out of the way in their study of FINANCE. Some economics students do not study economics in order to discover how goods and money flow and why people make the choices they make. They rather study it in order to learn the tools available for manipulation and for convincing folks, especially politicians, that they can do those manipulations for economic and political gain. We call these people Keynesians and Monetarists and they are politicians and political enablers, not economists. Monetarists tend to do a bit less damage than Keynesians because their goals tend to be constructive but they share the Keynesians' propensity for manipulation which is always harmful. At least they mostly believe in stable money. GWB is a "conservative" Keynesian in that he wants the economy to do the things that conservatives want but inflation ultimately wrecks those things and inflation is an indispensible tool for Keynesians and W has been explicitly inflating since he came into office. Actually the current inflation began in 1999 but W institutionalized it- made it explicit policy- in 2001.


36 posted on 05/16/2006 5:12:32 AM PDT by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: ThanhPhero
Most politicians and most people who work with money and finance do not understand economics and that includes Bernanke.

When I read that I practically fell out of my chair-- because it's true! 

Your post was so chock full of good stuff I printed the whole thing out and tacked it on the bulletin board next to my desk for reference, but your last sentence was hard for me to follow.   What I hear you saying is that since '99 we've been having inflation that we didn't before and W's made it permanent.

Just which inflation are you talking about?

37 posted on 05/16/2006 8:32:49 AM PDT by expat_panama (There are 10 kinds of freepers; them that manage numbers with a computer, and them that don't.)
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To: expat_panama
Reagan put an end to the Carter inflation and commenced a mild deflation. In the period up to 2000 the value of the dollar actually increased slowly. There was much Democrat complaint about "wage stagnation" because wages were not rising nominally over that period and it was a noisy issue among Democrats who decried it as evidence of the "worst economyin 50 years." But people were more ore less comfortable because their dollars stretched just a little farther as time passed. It was a long period of labor peace as unions felt no economic pressure to go on strike. In 1999 Clinton's FED began a policy of inflation, adding money to the money supply in excess of the needs of the market. Bush made that official when he announced "devaluation" of the dollar to counter perceived Chinese money manipulation. The rate of inflation was increased and the dollar has been losing value since, at a rate in excess of 10%.

The repeated raising of the interest rate by the FED to "stave off" inflation is, in fact, a ploy to attempt to channel the inflation into an area, interest rates, that the consumers won't notice. Ha! It has dealt a blow to one of the visible results of the inflation- it has ended, finally, the real estate price rise which now will direct that money that isn't chasing houses back into the rest of the market.

The European and Asian central banks, especially China, have been buying up most of those excess dollars to maintain the value of their currency reserves that back the value of their own currencies. Eventually that has to stop because they are spending value in order to keep the value of their dollar reserves stable. They have more and more dollars but no more value. They are now beginning to "sell off" those dollars and consumer prices are beginning to jump in the USA, at least in my neighborhood they are. Those dollars being sold off now, after years long delay, are entering the market and competing for goods. The portion of the current inflation that was not sucked up by the foreign banks has had a pretty strong and visible effect. Commodities have risen steadily in nominal price. Housing has steadily increased until the last year when the FED's interest rate hikes finally throttled the rise. And energy, most visibly oil, well that has beeen prettynoticeable, no? If these price rises had occurred with no inflation, other prices generally would have declined, but, except for electronics, they have not.

Most of the time our government economists have been Keynesians and/or Monetarists. Both varieties believe in manipulation of the money to achieve desirable ends. The monetarists think they have to tweak and adjust in order to maintain a stable dollar or to counter foreign governments' tweaking and adjusting. Keynesians tweak and adjust for political ends as well and to "counter" business cycle trends. In truth if a stable currency is rigidly maintained the ups and downs of the business cycly will be minimized- largely smoothed out because economic calculation is fairly easy with stable money. Businesses don't have to continually compensate for changes in the value of the unit of account.

The only proper response to foreign money manipulation is a stable dollar. Governments that manipulate their currencies harm their economies no matter what ploys are essayed and an economy with stable money will benefit relatively from other countries' manipulations, no matter what the immediate situation seems to be because that manipulation reduces economic efficiency(adds costs) for those producers that must operate with the manipulated money.

38 posted on 05/16/2006 1:29:42 PM PDT by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: DamonSt
The best and only Chinese technology is theft.

In their defense, they did make a killer water torture ... and gunpowder.

39 posted on 05/16/2006 1:34:37 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (The social contract is breaking down.)
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To: expat_panama
P.S. The inflation rate illustrated on that chart is the price level. Generally that mirrors the actual inflation rate pretty well but, because it does not measure inflation directly, it is deceptive. The inflation of the dollar is, by definition, the excess dollars put into the market over the amount required to keep the dollar stable. If those dollars are then bought up by the various central banks and held then a price level chart will not reflect them. That has been the case since 2001. A money inflation chart will not usually be characterized by bumps and dips because governments tend to inflate or deflate at steady rates. Prices of goods, however, are immediately affected by many things in the markets. The total picture of market prices would also show a smooth curve but people who make charts only measure some prices. Our government calls it a "basket of goods and services" and while that is generally representative, it does not account for all the influences in the market that shift the available dollars from one thing to another.
40 posted on 05/16/2006 1:45:23 PM PDT by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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