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Are Telephone Records Protected: Supreme Court Said "No" In 1979
Findlaw ^ | June 20, 1979 | US Supreme Court

Posted on 05/14/2006 2:21:04 PM PDT by angkor

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To: lawdude
I am getting darn sick and tired of the media (FOX included) stating or implying that the feds are recording or listening in on conversations.

I just heard Kelly Wright refer to the program as "eavesdropping." These people are so irresponsible, so sloppy.

41 posted on 05/14/2006 4:14:09 PM PDT by Bahbah (“KERRY LIED!! SCHOLARLY ATTRIBUTION DIED!!!”)
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To: l33t
Qwest declined the opportunity to cooperate with the NSA because the company believed that the legal requirements to do so have not been met.

The CEO of Qwest has some major problems of his own,...and is trying to use this to help his case....

From: US telecoms giants gave in to request for records

*******************************AN EXCERPT **********************************

Mr Nacchio, who is now facing charges of insider trading, confirmed in a statement issued by his attorney that Qwest was approached in the fall of 2001 to permit the government access to the private telephone records of Qwest customers.

Mr Nacchio, the statement says, inquired whether a warrant or other legal process had been secured in support of the request, and decided not to comply with the demand after he learned the government had not sought such permission.

The decision was based, according to the statement, on Mr Nacchio’s belief that complying with the request would violate the privacy requirements of the 1996 Telecommunications Act.

But that fact will probably be strongly opposed by the government. An official at the Federal Communications Commission, the telecommunications regulator, on Friday declined to comment on whether the agency would investigate the matter, but said that an exception in the law governing telecoms operators allowed the companies to provide phone data “as required by law”.

Qwest’s current management, led by Dick Notebaert, chief executive, reportedly broke off talks with the NSA in 2004 after failing to agree on the details. The company has declined to comment on the affair.

42 posted on 05/14/2006 4:22:10 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: angkor

First of all, if the government wants to know my calling habits, I’ll send them my phone bills. After reviewing my sinister calling pattern, they can also pay the bill. That seems fair.

As far as calling Al Qaeda, I’m sure their number is unlisted so I guess I won’t call them. I don’t know what I’d say to them anyway, unless I asked them to play nice.

As far as the government monitoring my calls, I don’t like the idea on principal, and I’m sure they would find my calls very boring. BUT, just to play it safe, I always say “Hi George” at least once during each call.


43 posted on 05/14/2006 4:27:55 PM PDT by RLM
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To: All

If you read the companies privacy information, you will probably find out, they will not give your information out, except to companies that are associated with that company, so your phone records are not really private. Also, alot of your information is put out yearly in what is called a phone book which is available in most librarys. I have read that for about 110 dollars you can get alot of telephone lists throught the internet.

wlk


44 posted on 05/14/2006 4:28:28 PM PDT by wlk
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To: FairOpinion; angkor
From CNET:

NSA's data mining explained

********************************************************************

By Declan McCullagh
http://marketwatch-cnet.com.com, marketwatch-cnet.com.com/NSAs+data+mining+explained/2100-1028_3-6071780.html

Story last modified Fri May 12 15:54:31 PDT 2006

advertisement

Capitol Hill politicians reacted angrily this week to a new report about how the National Security agency is involved in not merely surveillance of phone calls, but also an extensive data mining program.

"We need to know what our government is doing in its activities that spy upon Americans," said Sen. Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat. Republican Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania vowed to hold hearings to get to the bottom of how the NSA's data mining works and whether Americans' privacy rights were affected.

To answer some questions about the program and how it likely works, CNET News.com has created the following list of answers to frequently asked questions. Keep reading.

Q: What new information came out this week?
USA Today published an article on Thursday that said AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth turned over records of millions of phone calls to the National Security Agency. These are not international calls--they're apparently records of all calls that those companies' customers made.

Two things are worth noting. First, based on the newspaper's description, contents of phone calls were not divulged. Second, customers' names, street addresses and other personal information were not handed over.

Q: When you say records of phone calls were turned over, what does that mean?
That's a reference to "call detail records," or CDRs, which are database entries that record the parties to the conversation, the duration of the call and so on. This appears to include local phone calls and not just long-distance calls.

CDRs are stored in massive telephone company databases. Cisco Systems' Unified CallManager lets customers use SQL queries to dig up information about each call. Those internal databases have either been opened up to outside queries from the NSA or (more likely) duplicated and handed over to the NSA on a regular basis.

Q: If the NSA has my phone number, can it get my name and address?
Yes. The NSA can cross-check other databases to obtain that information. Many commercial data vendors, such as Yahoo People Search and LexisNexis' People Locator, do just that--and count many federal agencies among their customers.

Q: How about cell phones?
It would be a bit more difficult. There's no central directory for cell phones, for instance. And there's not much information that can be gleaned about owners of disposable cell phones who happened to buy them with cash.

Q: How is this different from what we knew before?
A series of disclosures, starting with The New York Times' report in December, outlined how the NSA conducted surreptitious electronic surveillance of phone calls and e-mail traffic when one party was outside the United States.

The president and other members of his administration have stuck to that claim--saying that domestic phone calls were not part of the dragnet. In January, for instance, Bush assured Americans that "one end of the communication must be outside the United States."

The latest revelation is different. It says the scope of the NSA's efforts is far broader than listening in on a few hundred conversations. Instead, the vast majority of Americans have probably had information on their phone calls turned over. (Another difference is that the contents of the conversations was not divulged, at least as far as we know.)

Q: When Attorney General Alberto Gonzales was testifying a few months ago, he seemed careful to specify that he was talking only about the "Terrorist Surveillance Program." Does that mean he knew about the phone data mining effort and refused to reveal it earlier?
It seems likely, but we don't know. During his appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee and in a subsequent letter to senators, Gonzales' careful wording seemed to imply that there may be additional domestic surveillance programs beyond the one revealed by The New York Times. (Testifying before senators, Gonzales referred to that program as "the program that the president has confirmed.")

But Gonzales later reassured concerned politicians that the administration is not currently conducting any additional domestic surveillance programs, Rep. Jane Harman, the senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, told The Washington Post in a March interview. Of course, Gonzales could have been parsing his words carefully--and might eventually claim that data mining is not surveillance.

Q: Now that the NSA has this mountain of data, what is the agency doing with it?
The two-word summary: data mining. That's a loose term that generally means directing a computer program to sift through large amounts of data in hopes of extracting previously unknown information.

In theory, useful patterns can emerge and future terrorist plots could be thwarted. In practice, though, The New York Times has reported that FBI sources say many of the tips provided by the NSA led to dead ends.

Q: What other data mining efforts has the NSA been involved with?
Details are classified, of course. But a few hints have become public, and we know that the NSA has funded or been otherwise involved in dozens of programs in the past.

The New York Times reported in February that NSA officials had recently met with Silicon Valley companies while shopping for better data mining techniques.

Virage, in San Mateo, Calif., boasts that its products that can transcribe the text of audio conversations are perfect for "intelligence agencies" and lists federal agencies (including the NSA's parent agency) as customers. Another product, called Analyst's Notebook and made by the Virginia-based company i2, is in use by the FBI and many "defense and intelligence agencies."

A patent (#5,937,422) granted to the NSA in August 1999 talks about extracting topics from computer-generated text, which would include telephone conversations.

Q: Which companies are cooperating with the NSA?
We don't know the whole list. So far AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth have been named as cooperating, and Qwest has said it refused to divulge information without a court order. Cox Communications has said it was not asked to hand over anything to the NSA.

There are two odd discrepancies. A survey that we published in February asked telecommunications carriers whether they "turned over information or opened up their networks to the NSA without being compelled by law." Neither Verizon nor AT&T would give a yes or a no answer to that question.

But BellSouth did answer in the negative at the time.

Q: What's BellSouth's explanation now?
A BellSouth representative said Thursday that he could not explain the discrepancy, and provided us with a statement saying: "BellSouth does not provide any confidential customer information to the NSA or any governmental agency without proper legal authority."

The statement did not elaborate on what "proper legal authority" might be--leaving open the possibility that it includes a mere polite request from the FBI or the White House.

Q: Wait--you mentioned two odd discrepancies. What's the second?
That would be Yahoo. Under cross-examination by a House committee in February, Yahoo General Counsel Michael Callahan declined five times to say whether the company opens its records to the NSA without a court order.

Q: Is this type of data mining legal under federal law? And permissible under the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution?
It depends on who you talk to. The same people who viewed the earlier wiretapping scheme as permissible are likely to argue that data mining is also perfectly OK.

Peter Swire, who worked in the Clinton White House and now teaches privacy law, has written a set of legal FAQs that say the wiretapping was unlawful. John Eastman, a conservative law professor at the Claremont Institute, argues in a letter to Congress (click here for PDF) that the wiretapping was permissible.

As for the data mining, Jim Harper of the free-market Cato Institute says it violates the Fourth Amendment's prohibition on unreasonable searches. Orin Kerr, a former Justice Department prosecutor who takes a more permissive view of police power, says his tentative conclusion is that it does not run afoul of the Fourth Amendment but the phone companies likely violated the Stored Communications Act.

Q: What Republicans have publicly criticized the NSA spying program?
The loudest outcry has come from Sen. Arlen Specter, a moderate Pennyslvania Republican who chairs the Judiciary Committee. Specter said late last month that he was prepared to yank federal funding for the program unless the Bush Administration supplies his committee with enough information to determine whether it's legal.

Both Specter and Sen. Bill Nelson, a Florida Republican seeking re-election this fall, called for hearings to investigate the role of telephone companies in the NSA program after the USA Today revelations.

New Mexico Rep. Heather Wilson, who serves on the U.S. House of Representatives Intelligence Committee, was among the first Republicans to voice her concerns about the program publicly and to call for a deeper inquiry.

Q: What has Sen. Specter done so far in response to the program?
In addition to convening four Judiciary Committee hearings aimed at vetting the program, Specter has made a public display of his skepticism about the wiretapping's constitutionality. He has repeatedly chided the Bush administration for failing to provide the necessary details that senators need to determine the program's propriety and has threatened to withhold funding for it.

He is also pushing a piece of legislation that would force the attorney general to take any existing electronic surveillance program back to the FISA court for scrutiny.

Q: What lawsuits have been filed in response to the NSA surveillance program?
Soon after the program's existence came to light, the American Civil Liberties Union sued the NSA directly in a Michigan federal court. The complaint, filed on behalf of "a diverse group of prominent journalists, scholars, attorneys and national nonprofit organizations who frequently communicate by telephone and e-mail with people outside the United States," asks that the secret wiretaps be declared unconstitutional.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation followed later in January with its own class-action suit against AT&T, alleging that the telecommunications giant opened up its facilities to the NSA in violation of the Constitution and federal wiretapping law.

But if the U.S. government gets its way, the court action won't proceed. Late last month, the Justice Department filed a document registering its intent to assert the "military and state secrets privilege" after EFF revealed it has uncovered potentially confidential documents describing a "dragnet" scheme by AT&T.

One lawsuit has already effectively ended. The Electronic Privacy Information Center sued the Justice Department in January for allegedly refusing to turn over documents related to the surveillance program in response to a Freedom of Information Act request. A federal judge ultimately ordered the government to turn over the documents by a prescribed deadline.

Q: What do Americans think of this?
According to the latest surveys, most people don't seem to mind. An ABC News-Washington Post poll published Friday found that 63 percent of the 502 random Americans surveyed found the NSA's collection of phone call records either "strongly" or "somewhat acceptable."

In that same survey, 66 percent of the respondents said it wouldn't bother them if the NSA had possession of their call logs. At the same time, just a narrow majority--51 percent--said they approved of the way President Bush has handled privacy concerns as the government investigates terrorism.

Q: What's going to happen next in Congress?
In the short term, more hearings are likely. Sen. Specter has already said he plans to call in executives from the telecommunications companies reportedly involved in the NSA program. Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida has asked the chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee to hold hearings.

House Democrats introduced a bill Thursday called the Lawful Intelligence and Surveillance of Terrorists in an Emergency by NSA, or the Listen Act. It says that covert attempts to spy on Americans or collect telephone and e-mail records must be approved by a court created by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

Q: But haven't Democrats introduced bills before without any success?
Yes. Especially in the House of Representatives, the Republican majority enjoys a near-absolute ability to set the agenda. A number of other bills dealing with the surveillance program have been introduced but have been stuck in committee.

In other news:

A mostly Democratic-backed House proposal, for instance, called the NSA Oversight Act would obligate the president to issue a classified report on how many Americans have been the subject of electronic surveillance under the NSA program.

A bill introduced by Sen. Specter would explicitly require the government to receive approval of present and future electronic surveillance programs from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

Another bill, introduced by New York Sen. Charles Schumer, a Democrat, proposes awarding court relief to citizens who can provide evidence that they've refrained from electronic communications because of a "reasonable fear" they will be tapped.

Can the NSA conduct wiretaps without explicitly asking for phone records?
Yes. It's hardly a secret that the NSA specializes in electronic surveillance, called communications intelligence in the vernacular of spies. Author James Bamford's 1982 book "The Puzzle Palace" documented how the NSA created hundreds of "intercept stations"--ultrasophisticated, hypersensitive radio receivers designed to pluck both military signals and civilian telephone calls out of the air.

CNET News.com published an analysis in February of how the NSA does its job today. Also, an article by Bamford in last month's Atlantic Monthly recounts how the NSA has built listening posts to intercept and listen to satellite transmissions of phone calls, e-mails and other communications that travel from other countries into the United States.

The NSA has also bugged undersea fiber optic cables that link the communications in the U.S. with countries overseas. And with the permission of the phone companies, the agency has also attached monitoring equipment inside these telephone facilities so that information can be sent to NSA's supercomputers in Fort Meade, Md., to be analyzed, the article said.

Q: What about Internet communications, such as Internet telephony or e-mail messages?
Much of the Internet traffic that's transmitted in the United States traverses just a handful of switching centers owned by big communications companies, such as Verizon. The busiest are MAE East (Metropolitan Area Exchange), in Vienna, Va., and MAE West, in San Jose, Calif. The NSA has access to those switching centers, Bamford says.

In addition, the Federal Communications Commission has ordered broadband providers to build in back doors for electronic eavesdropping. A federal appeals court in Washington, D.C., heard arguments last week in a lawsuit challenging those rules.

CNET News.com's Marguerite Reardon contributed to this report.

45 posted on 05/14/2006 4:28:31 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: angkor
To the Dems it's always the seriousness of the charge; not the accuracy of the matter that is the most important. Remember a liberal has a photographic brain; trouble is it's never been developed.
46 posted on 05/14/2006 4:32:02 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: angkor

Democrats were okay with Eschelon and Carnivore which captured every phone call, every e-mail, every baby monitor (!), every ATM transaction and more, and that program is okay, pre war on terror, but this program isn't okay.

Eschelon and Carnivore information:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1543118/posts?page=1#1

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1542838/posts

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1543318/posts

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21387

Oops - Clinton's NSA spying program accidentally (ahem) captured a Republican's phone calls.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1553101/posts?page=1

And just for kicks, the Commies insisted on FISA:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21453

Flashback: Gore planned to bug America:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1559386/posts

NYT called domestic surveillance a necessity when Clinton was president:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1556815/posts

This is the December 2005 NYT article which says what today's USA Today article says regarding NSA collecting phone numbers.

Clearly, Democrats (and some RINOs) have manufactured their outrage over this already reported on program. LOL

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/politics/24spy.html?ei=5090&en=016edb46b79bde83&ex=1293080400&pagewanted=print


47 posted on 05/14/2006 4:33:50 PM PDT by Peach
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To: angkor
I have no problem with the NSA or police gathering records of people they already suspect of law breaking.

I Do have a problem of the NSA or police gathering records, examining them, and THEN determining from those records who is a threat or not.

48 posted on 05/14/2006 4:36:16 PM PDT by conserv13
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To: angkor
In is truly a joke...the phone company does not tape or listen in to your phone conversation (legally)(that a wire tap)and the gov. has to get a warrant to do a wire tap...

But the phone company does collect journeying information (the call from and to and the min.) on every call... that legal no warrant required

It's no diff then the mail the information in side a letter or package is private... but the address on the outside to and from is not....considering that the post office(and shipping companys) uses computerize auto reader of the address for sorting...I would not be surprised if there was also a massive database of where people are mailing to and from

49 posted on 05/14/2006 4:37:48 PM PDT by tophat9000 (If it was illegal French Canadians would La Raza back them? Racist back there race over country)
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To: untrained skeptic
There was no reasonable expectation of privacy in 1979 because there were no legal protection of the privacy of such information then.

That changed with the Electronic Communications Privacy Act in 1984, which was in response to Smith vs. Maryland. Additional protections on the privacy of such information are included in the Telecommunications Act of 1996, section 222.

I'm uncomfortable with what this NSA program does, but I can understand the need and the benefit. I don't really oppose the program, but I'm not convinced the NSA implemented it legally.

The difference between the pen recorder and the database lies in the fact that the database search is broader - it takes in vast gigabytes of data - and narrower, in the sense that humans will see only the data which comes out of (let us hope, legitimate) search criteria. That is, a woman would not want her call to an abortionist traced, but we can hope that the government is required to justify its search critera so that that information as such is not presented to human operators.

50 posted on 05/14/2006 4:44:19 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which liberalism coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: angkor

The "concrete baseline rule of thumbs" is that if a certain SENATOR CLINTON, has in her posession 900+ FBI files, then the "shut-up-fergitit-go-away-get-lose-rule" applies FIRST! AND DON'T FERGIT IT!!!!


51 posted on 05/14/2006 4:51:15 PM PDT by Waco
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To: DaGman
If you persist in doing your level best to protect your friends in AlQaida it's entirely possible you could end up dead.

Your best bet is to not let this phone-records thing turn you into a target.

It's truly unfortunate you've let the MSM and George Sorros' running dog lackeys mislead you into your false beliefs about the sacredness of Osama Bin Laden's phone records.

The United States of America, first and foremost, has a right of self-defense, as do each and every one of its people.

52 posted on 05/14/2006 5:13:37 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: Publius6961
"Nowhere in the common bibles or in our constitution is there a mention of "God given right to privacy". Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong..."

Well I guess you heard it here first.

53 posted on 05/14/2006 5:34:40 PM PDT by DaGman
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To: FairOpinion
I understand exactly what they are doing. They are creating a database of what phones called what other phones and the lengths of the calls so that they can search it.

They can associate greater weight based on how certain they are that someone is involved in terrorist activity. They can weigh number which communicated with that number more heavily if the conversations were a certain length, or if they made calls to other common numbers.

Such a system gives them an excellent tool for mapping out a network of people who they are worth investigating.

They could do the same thing with organized crime.

They can even indirectly discover if different people are using or communicating through the same lawyers, since the database just keeps track of phone numbers and they only check who the phone number belongs to after they have reason to investigate.

The might even be able to unravel the complicated web of liberal 527 groups and figure out how they are connected and who's pulling the strings.

How about using the phone numbers of the top dozen people in the NRA and see what kind of network of phone calls they can discover?

The government can't keep a registry of who owns guns, but they could use this to figure out who calls gun ranges, gun stores, and people involved with shooting sports.

Of course our government won't do that because... Well, what laws are they saying authorize creating this and what laws limit it's use?

What is telling them they can't use the information for any of those purposes? If you have a decent sized organization, it's likely that someone in it that can be connected to someone who the government has reasonable suspicions about even if it's through something like you're brother's coworker used the same florist as the person of interest's mechanic's dog sitter.

Pick a couple different numbers in the network of connections and weight them more heavily, and you're gathering information on a different group, and it's likely that they will do it by accident and map out considerable information about a group and not know what that group is other than that they are active until they start investigating the people related to the phone numbers.

This is just phone numbers. Think about what they could do if they also had credit card records. What if they can match it with location information provided by cell phones with GPS capabilities. After all a GPS location is really a tiny amount of data, and you're phone is in constant communication with the network.

A lot has changed since 1979. Things that were considered scary, wild conspiracy theories decades ago are now common business practices by companies trying to make their marketing campaigns more effective.

I'm not suggesting that we should all go hide in the wilderness, or not use phones and credit cards. However, we should be aware of what these things mean to our privacy.

For those of us who hold our 2nd amendment rights especially dear, it has long been considered extremely important to prevent the government from creating a registry of who owns firearms. However, it's very close to the point where an explicit registry would give them little more information than they could gather easily enough from other sources.

54 posted on 05/14/2006 5:46:10 PM PDT by untrained skeptic
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

This is a great post.

Could you please post it as it's own post, I was looking for it, to refer to it, and almost couldn't find it.

I think it deserves it's own thread.


55 posted on 05/14/2006 5:48:53 PM PDT by FairOpinion (Dem Foreign Policy: SURRENDER to our enemies. Real conservatives don't help Dems get elected.)
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To: untrained skeptic

And if we don't do that, you won't have to worry about your 2nd Amendment rights, because the terrorists will nuke us and it won't matter.

The point is that a corrupt government, such as the Clintons kept files on people even if it was against the law -- remember all those FBI files, and who knows what else?

We are at war and phone records are a least invasive way to try to find those who are in contact with terrorists.


56 posted on 05/14/2006 5:52:40 PM PDT by FairOpinion (Dem Foreign Policy: SURRENDER to our enemies. Real conservatives don't help Dems get elected.)
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To: angkor

The LameStream Media doesn't give a **** about the SCOTUS, unless, of course, it is permitting infanticide or shredding the First Amendment.


57 posted on 05/14/2006 6:03:57 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat ((I am SO glad to no longer be associated with the party of Dependence on Government!))
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To: FairOpinion
OK....

NSA's data mining explained ~~ CNET's Explanation

I'll check back after the game....

58 posted on 05/14/2006 6:27:09 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Publius6961
Nowhere in the common bibles or in our constitution is there a mention of "God given right to privacy".

Amendment IX - The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Basically, this means that just because it isn't in the constitution doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And furthermore, in direct and obvious contrast, the 10th Amendment statest that the powers of the Federal Government ARE indeed enumerated and limited by the constitution and no powers exist outside of those enumerated.

So when we give a free pass to the Feds for whatever power they want to usurp whatever rights aren't explicitly mentioned, then we are ignoring the Bill of Rights and the founding fathers intent.

regards,
-Thoreau

59 posted on 05/14/2006 6:59:39 PM PDT by Thoreau
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To: RLM
don’t like the idea on principal, and I’m sure they would find my calls very boring. BUT, just to play it safe, I always say “Hi George” at least once during each call.

You're way out of your depth. This has nothing to do with the NSA program.

60 posted on 05/15/2006 4:29:28 AM PDT by angkor
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