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A FAIRTAX PRIMER
self | May 14, 2006 | self

Posted on 05/14/2006 1:59:13 PM PDT by RobFromGa

FAIRTAX: A Primer Now that the author of the bill, John Linder, admits in his co-authored book "The FairTax Book" that there in no such thing as "Keep 100% of your paycheck, while prices stay the same", let's examine where that leaves the FairTax:

WAGES: It has been made clear by many proponents of the FairTax that they are expecting 100% of their current gross pay, and that many employer/employee wage relationships, including those for government workers are controlled by contract. So, we'll assume every wage earner gets to keep 100% of their current gross pay. Everyone can figure out for him or herself what that gives them in terms of a take-home pay increase.

BUSINESS COSTS: If we assume that businesses get to keep their half of the payroll taxes (7.65% of all payroll costs up to first $95k per employee), plus taxes on corporate profits (average <2% of Cost of Goods sold) and some tax compliance savings (being generous we'll call this 1% savings), this gives the business about 8% of cost savings with which to potentially reduce prices.

PRICES: For domestic goods, if we assume that the entire 8% is passed along to the consumer, this means that pre-tax prices will be 92% of present day prices. That $10 twelve pack will now be $9.20. Of course, the twelve pack of imported beer is still $10 pre-tax. Once the 30% FairTax is added, the price of the domestic beer will be $11.96 and the price of the imported beer will be $13.00 even. So, domestic prices will go up about 20% and imported item prices will go up about 30%.

GOVERNMENT EXPENSES: Since the government expects this plan to enable them to purchase the same things they purchase now, they will need to raise sufficient revenue in order to achieve purchasing power parity. Since they will be paying the 30% FairTax on every item, we can assume that for stuff they buy, they will see the same 20% price increase on domestic items and 30% increase on imported items as other end consumers. So they will need to increase their dollar intake by this 20%+ to enable them to buy the same amount of stuff. And, of course all government salaries will have the 30% FairTax paid on the salary, less the employer half of the payroll taxes, so this is a net 22.35% increase in the cost of the entire payroll of the US government (and states too, but that is another can of worms).

ENTITLEMENT COSTS: Since the social security payments are linked to CPI, when this 20%+ price rise slams through the economy all the social security checks will have to be raised to cover this massive FairTax caused inflation. They will rise by at least 20%, and a litle more because the basket of goods will include some imported items like oil. Medicare/medical expenses will have the FairTax added, for a 20%+ increase.

GOVERNMENT PURCHASING POWER PARITY: with the cost of Payroll, plus everything they buy, plus the entitlements, all going up 20% plus we can assume that the governement will need to collect approximately 20%+ more of the new inflated dollars in order to buy what they are today with today's more stable dollars.

FAIR TAX RATE: Assuming nothing else changes regarding purchasing behavior, size of the government, etc. this means that the 30% FairTax would need to immediately raised 20% (to 36%) just to bring in all the inflated dollars that are required to fund the govt at present level. The price of domestic beer is now $12.50 and the import is $13.60.

SAVED MONEY: All dollars that are post-tax savings would be devalued by the FairTax inflation by 20% in terms of what they can buy with their hard-earned and saved money.

Does this sound like a utoia to anyone? Isn't it very likely that a 36% sales tax will cause consumption to suffer and/or transactions driven into a barter system or the black market where they cannot be taxed. And every dollar that is taken from the legitimate economy is another increase that is needed in the FairTax rate in order to feed the government the amount of money it needs.

Isn't is likely that we will end up with an income tax again on top of the FairTax when this all plays out?


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boortz; cult; fairtax; linder
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To: RobFromGa

Since they will be paying the 30% FairTax on every item.

The Fed govt doesn't pay sales tax now on items they purchase. I see no reason for them to do it with the Fairtax either.


21 posted on 05/14/2006 3:21:21 PM PDT by bordergal
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To: bordergal

Read the bill, it's another part of the scam to make the Fairtax rate lower than it really is. The government pays 30% FairTax to itself and counts it as revenue. Another double-counting error by the FairTax crowd...


22 posted on 05/14/2006 3:23:36 PM PDT by RobFromGa (In decline, the Driveby Media is thrashing about like dinosaurs caught in the tar pits.)
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To: RobFromGa

Yes, there is a "Dole" quality to the Prebate. The dole goes to Resident Citizens ONLY. There is no Corporate Dole or "prefered industry" Dole.

JUMBO Spenders want the FRUGAL Families to overlook the Prebate. Big Spenders are spinning this one.


23 posted on 05/14/2006 3:23:45 PM PDT by PizzaDriver (an heinleinian/libertarian)
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To: HitmanLV
That particular "bullet" is fatal enough to sink the fair tax. There are many others hidden behind "warm and fuzzy" language within the bill. Not the least of which is general "You haven't read..." or "You just don't understand..." malarkey.

Some of us have a deep knowledge of the current system - and don't hate it any less than the next guy - we're just not willing to drink the koolaid.

A few of us pay more income tax per year than most people earn in a lifetime.

Ever heard of a "little green card" the IRS will make you sign if the statute of limitations is running out on them; else be prepared to be audited every year for the rest of your life...

Better plans have been proposed - are in use around the world (Flat Tax) but FT's would rather spend nearly all their time and energy shouting down the voices of reason - and experience - instead of debating the hard facts of how society functions, how government was "born to steal", and how 2 simple things can fix it.

A )Flat Taxation.

B) Constitutional limitation on all spending, not just the 10-15% the public is told about. (in ways meant only to scare, not to inform.)

24 posted on 05/14/2006 3:25:07 PM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: lewislynn
Its fascinating the same people opposed to paying less in taxes want to keep the IRS around. I'd rather not deal with them but to each his own.

(Denny Crane: "Every one should carry a gun strapped to their waist. We need more - not less guns.")

25 posted on 05/14/2006 3:25:26 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: HitmanLV

I am with you on this one. It is not the main, but only hangup for me. And even if - by decree- all already taxed moneys are up-indexed at the moment of transition, so that the savings account which used to be $10000 becomes $12500, such a development would be wildly inflationary.


26 posted on 05/14/2006 3:27:38 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: xcamel
The post tax savings problem is fatal to the FT as far as I am concerned. Nothing even remotely 'fair' about it.

I'm open to it, though, if that problem can fairly be addressed. To be blunt, the problem is not even really acknowledged, let alone addressed.

Maybe a flat tax is better. I'm open.
27 posted on 05/14/2006 3:27:48 PM PDT by HitmanLV ("5 Minute Penalty for #40, Ann Theresa Calvello!" - RIP 1929-2006)
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To: GSlob
I agree. Maybe set up a kind of debit card account account where charges against it are not subject to the Fair Tax? A technological conundrum, maybe. The idea is to make things easier, not harder! ;-)
28 posted on 05/14/2006 3:31:05 PM PDT by HitmanLV ("5 Minute Penalty for #40, Ann Theresa Calvello!" - RIP 1929-2006)
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To: goldstategop
Its fascinating the same people opposed to paying less in taxes want to keep the IRS around.
Where is that written? The Fairtax is revenue neutral. The only ones paying less tax would be corporations and businesses not dealing in retail sales. My service business, hence my customers would be paying MORE not less tax.
29 posted on 05/14/2006 3:32:33 PM PDT by lewislynn (Fairtax = lies, hope, wishful thinking, conjecture and lies. (no it's not a mistake)
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To: xcamel
I agree we should limit spending but that's no reason not to limit the way the government collects revenue. The FairTax would put that process in the open. You would know exactly how much the government takes from you every time you spend for a good or service. Can you say that about the income tax? I doubt any of the anti-FT posters on here have the foggiest idea of just how much the government withholds from their paychecks or what the true level of taxation in this country really is. Simpler is both fairer and better.

(Denny Crane: "Every one should carry a gun strapped to their waist. We need more - not less guns.")

30 posted on 05/14/2006 3:33:00 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
A good deal of what makes prices so high in this country are all those embedded taxes. And the corporate income tax gets paid by consumers. If we could eliminate all those taxes and pay ONE TAX ONE TIME, we'd pay a lot less than we do now. And our paychecks would go a lot further.

Let's see your analysis of how prices are going to be a lot less than what they are now. I showed mine in the opening post and I say prices are going up 20%+ or thereabouts if people keep their full paychecks and businesses keep the employer half of FiCA.

Where are your calculations showing the price decline? Wishful thinking does not substitute for the truth.

31 posted on 05/14/2006 3:36:39 PM PDT by RobFromGa (In decline, the Driveby Media is thrashing about like dinosaurs caught in the tar pits.)
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To: lewislynn
Well if we drop the fictitious pretense corporations and businesses pay taxes, why wouldn't we not see them pass on the savings to their customers? Every one knows individuals pay taxes. That's the problem with the economic illiteracy in this country - people like to think some rich imaginary corporation will foot the bill, not them. The FairTax is revenue neutral since in the real world, the politicians are not going to give us back everything we'd like. So its understandable there are trade-offs.

(Denny Crane: "Every one should carry a gun strapped to their waist. We need more - not less guns.")

32 posted on 05/14/2006 3:38:32 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: HitmanLV
Real life example is gas prices... Low gas prices, nobody complains about the profits, or how it's spent, or where the money goes. High prices, every worm comes out of the woodwork to bitch about things they can't pray to comprehend.

If the worms had been making hay getting greater energy independence (more exploration, alternate fuels, more refining) we wouldn't be suffering high prices now.

Once [government] spending is controlled by law, tax reform is a walk in the park.

33 posted on 05/14/2006 3:38:43 PM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: goldstategop
I doubt any of the anti-FT posters on here have the foggiest idea of just how much the government withholds from their paychecks

To the dollar, I know how much income tax I paid, it's one line all added up on a tax form each year. And how much I withheld is shown as a YTD amount on every paystub.

I doubt that a single FairTaxer can estimate to within 25% what they paid in cumulative sales taxes last year.

34 posted on 05/14/2006 3:39:03 PM PDT by RobFromGa (In decline, the Driveby Media is thrashing about like dinosaurs caught in the tar pits.)
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To: goldstategop
people like to think some rich imaginary corporation will foot the bill, not them.

Some people may think that, I am under no such misconception. But only C corporations pay corporate taxes and the amount of revenue collected as income and payroll taxes dwarfs the corporate taxes.

I am in favor of eliminating all corporate taxes within the present system, along with spending reductions.

35 posted on 05/14/2006 3:41:06 PM PDT by RobFromGa (In decline, the Driveby Media is thrashing about like dinosaurs caught in the tar pits.)
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To: goldstategop
I would bet they do, and every nickle too. Otherwise, they wouldn't be nearly as skeptical of the fair tax, and willing to bank known patterns of human behavior against the concept. If it sounds too good to be true, it is, and when the hair stands up on your neck, you'd better pay attention.

Please note I did not say limiting spending is a reason not to change taxation. I said spending must be limited before meaningful tax reform can even begin.

Anyone who robs Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul...


36 posted on 05/14/2006 3:48:31 PM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: RobFromGa
It stands to reason that when a plethora of taxes are eliminated, this should reduce the cost to businesses. Instead of having to factor taxes into the prices, they can set the price they think it would be in the absence of all those taxes before the FairTax comes into play. And don't forget market competition and where consumers spend their dollars. What I'm talking about isn't wishful thinking but rather patterns of human behavior and economic rules that have driven life for thousands of years. We really don't know if taxes will rise under a FairTax system. No, I don't think it will be a low-tax utopia but it will be a lot better than what we have in place today.

(Denny Crane: "Every one should carry a gun strapped to their waist. We need more - not less guns.")

37 posted on 05/14/2006 3:49:42 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
It stands to reason that when a plethora of taxes are eliminated, this should reduce the cost to businesses

But they aren't removing a plethora of taxes. The primary taxes that are being removed are being given to the employees in the form of "keep 100% of your paycheck". I've listed the taxes that will be removed and they don't add up to even 10%. Let's see your analysis rather than your platititudes.

We really don't know if taxes will rise under a FairTax system.

We do know they plan to start by adding a 30% tax on every retail purchase, that is a tax rise.

38 posted on 05/14/2006 3:53:25 PM PDT by RobFromGa (In decline, the Driveby Media is thrashing about like dinosaurs caught in the tar pits.)
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To: RobFromGa
We do know they plan to start by adding a 30% tax on every retail purchase...

No, they plan to start by eliminating the taxes that the nrst will replace. Further, the tax is not on every retail purchase.

39 posted on 05/14/2006 4:11:22 PM PDT by Principled
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To: goldstategop
Well if we drop the fictitious pretense corporations and businesses pay taxes, why wouldn't we not see them pass on the savings to their customers?
I guess you're going to ignore the fact that I said my customers would pay (30%) MORE for my service not less...what savings are you talking about exactly?

I would still have to pay tax when I spend my money...That's why they call it a "replacement" tax.

40 posted on 05/14/2006 4:15:23 PM PDT by lewislynn (Fairtax = lies, hope, wishful thinking, conjecture and lies. (no it's not a mistake)
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