Long & Short: Dumb Americans, Greedy Lawyers, Open Borders

Fox & Friends Weekend/NewsBusters ^ | Mark Finkelstein

[governsleastgovernsbest]

by Mark Finkelstein

May 13, 2006

If you're not outraged by the NSA program that monitors phone-calling patterns, you're probably . . . too dumb to understand its implications. That, in a nutshell, and I do mean nutshell, was Ellen Ratner's argument on this morning's 'Long & the Short of It' segment on Fox & Friends Weekend. Oh, well, that - and opening our borders with Mexico.

Host Julian Phillips [who expressed his personal opposition to the NSA program] put it to Ratner that "most Americans don't care about this. They say the NSA should do that to keep our security intact."

Replied Ratner:

"Until some neighbor who might work at a spy agency gets their phone records and starts spewing it around town that somebody is talking to somebody or divorce records get subpoenaed or something like that. You know, most people don't understand the impact of how bad this really is."

When Phillips mentioned to 'Long' Jim Pinkerton that a $5 billion class-action lawsuit has been filed [that didn't take long!] against Verizon for its participation in the program, he replied:

"Well of course greedy trial lawyers will always be there to profit even at the expense of national security. The phone companies don't have anything on me and the government that Verizon doesn't already have."

He continued: "We should distinguish, Julian, between abuse and the potential for abuse. There is the potential for abuse I admit, but until the abuse exists, I think we have to default in terms of, look, we haven't been hit since 9/11. At that means a lot. It means a lot to most Americans."

In a truly odd non sequitur, Phillips replied "well that might be the case, but there is also the situation of eminent domain and apparently that is being abused at least according to some people here in a situation out on Long Island so we're going to keep our eyes on this." Huh?

Phillips then segued to immigration, noting that President Bush will address the nation on the issue on Monday evening. He suggested to Pinkerton that the president has to seek "some sort of compromise" on the issue.

Pinkerton: "Actually, he's got to prove that he got the message that the American people and anybody even remotely thinking about voting Republican in November doesn't want an amnesty program. They want tough enforcement . . . I am sort of optimistic from reading the papers this morning that the president means business about getting tough on the border. That would also mean, as Michelle Malkin points out in a column this morning in the Washington Times, getting tough about cleaning up the Department of Homeland Security. The two are connected. You have to have a tough border enforcement system to make people feel secure."

Ratner reiterated her security strategy, which amounts to surrender: "I think you cannot enforce these borders. I think that they are -- we live in a geographically very difficult way to enforce the border with Mexico and we have too many people who want these people to work here. Because the labor is cheap. I think you can have all the Power Point presentations you want in the world it is time to open the borders between Mexico on the United States. I have said that before and I get lots of hate mail. It's okay." Pinkerton: "Here is a Republican secret plan for a huge triumph in November. That is, simply remind people that Ellen speaks for the Democrats."

Let' see - no monitoring of potential terrorist phone-calling, and open borders with Mexico. Nancy & Harrry: can you hear me now? Go for it!

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Fox & Friends Weekend/NewsBusters ping to Today show list.

[battlegearboat]

I go to Phillips for gas.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

There's a pattern here regarding Ratner's disdain for the intelligence of her fellow Americans. As I reported here, back in January, commenting on the NSA program disclosed in January in which phone calls between suspected Al-Qaeda members or associates and people in the US were being monitored, Ratner sniffed:

"You know as well as I know: if the American people really understood what was going on with their privacy, and the Democrats could explain it very simple terms, the tide would turn against the Bush administration."

[jigsaw]

Pinkerton: "Here is a Republican secret plan for a huge triumph in November. That is, simply remind people that Ellen speaks for the Democrats."

LOL!

glgb, thank you so much for all your reporting.   Your work is very appreciated!

[an amused spectator]

Dear Ellen: Did you know that your phone company is spying on you? And that the government said to your phone company - "Hey , can we have the data that you keep while spying on your customers, ATT, SBC, etc.?"

I was explaining to people yesterday why this is a totally phony, out-and-out lie of a screech against the Bush administration.

As a friend of mine said yesterday, we should impeach anyone in Congress that takes up this phony argument.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Many thanks, jigsaw. As always, it's my - twisted - pleasure!

[PGalt]

Pinkerton: "Here is a Republican secret plan for a huge triumph in November. That is, simply remind people that Ellen speaks for the Democrats."

I saw that. It was great. Thanks. BTTT.

[Wilhelm Tell]

It is absurd to strengthen the border while at the same time offering increased incentives for people to illegally cross it. Simply doing away with the "anchor baby" provision for illegals will take care of much of the problem almost immediately. Take away that incentive and it will make a big difference.

[carmenbmw]

Gee, Ratner, since you are so wise, why dont you help the Dims out and explain it FOR THEM?
Oh, yeah, you cant.

[B4Ranch]

That would require a steel spine, something that is not to be found anywhere close to a politician.

[Chuck54]

Take away that incentive and it will make a big difference.

.....and the absolutely best way to accomplish this is to pass a law, immediately, that states in plain English...........

ANYONE CAUGHT IN THE UNITED STATES ILLEGALLY FORFEITS FOREVER THEIR RIGHT TO AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP.

No do-overs, no forgiveness, no chance of citizenship EVER. Then kick their butts out.

[William Terrell]

"We should distinguish, Julian, between abuse and the potential for abuse. There is the potential for abuse I admit, but until the abuse exists, I think we have to default in terms of, look, we haven't been hit since 9/11.

I don't agree with Phillips, but I mind what Edmund Burke, speaking about the American colonies, said:

"This study (law) renders men acute, inquisitive, dexterious, prompt in attack, ready in defense, full of resources. In other countries, the people, more simple and of a less mercurial cast, judge of an ill principal in government only by an actual grievance; here they anticipate the evil, and judge of the pressure of the grievance by the badness of the principal. They augur misgovernment from a distance, and snuff the approach of tyranny in every tainted breeze."

[TomGuy]

Ratner reiterated her security strategy, which amounts to surrender: "I think you cannot enforce these borders. I think that they are -- we live in a geographically very difficult way to enforce the border with Mexico and we have too many people who want these people to work here...."

To ranting Ratner's remark, I would point her to this comment:

President Bush says there is no way we can deport 12 million people. It is just can't be done.

Mexico did.

--Ted Nugent


Kerin Chentry (sp) caught herself this morning. After several minutes of the 3 talking heads going on about NSA monitoring of phone calls, she finally corrected herself and Philips and the other female talking head to say not monitoring, but collecting the phone numbers.

These talking heads do more damage than good. They rant and ramble and use terms without consideration for real accuracy. They should be held accountable and taken to task, but they usually aren't.

[angkor]

The ignorance on this issue is astonishing.

Both NSA programs - which are said to collect telephone numbers only and not conversations - are no different than other "pen register" programs used by law enforcement. Pen registers do require a court order, but judges are not allowed to decline a pen register request from law enforcement.

And the US Supreme Court ruled in 1979 that there is no privacy interest in the *numbers* one dials to initiate a telephone call.

Both programs are consistent with historic law enforcement practice and are perfectly legal.

[Mo1]

"Until some neighbor who might work at a spy agency gets their phone records and starts spewing it around town that somebody is talking to somebody or divorce records get subpoenaed or something like that. You know, most people don't understand the impact of how bad this really is."

Ummmm .. Ellen, I can get more gossip from my neighbor who doesn't have a job, then I could from looking at a phone bill

[ishabibble]

A few months ago, one of the architects of the NSA software programs was interviewed on this subject. It had to have been on one of the Fox programs, as I can no longer bear to watch any MSM political talk shows. The guy was one of those dry, geeky computer geniuses that are strangely endearing as they blink into the camera, obviously uncomfortable in a suit and tie.

This man explained in very clear detail how this program works. By using algorithms and data mining, and looking for specific words and phrases, in Arabic languages, and by using demographics, known sources of intelligence, random tracking, etc. aka computer "gobbledygook" the NSA was able to target specific phone conversations between terrorists on overseas calls. I didn't understand his tech talk, but I did understand clearly that this program bypasses, by necessity, the mundane everyday conversations of the millions of phone calls in, say, just one hour. I was impressed. Awhile later, one a thread dealing with this subject, I remember writing that I wanted the NSA to side with me over the turkey vs. prime rib debate that my sister and I have every holiday. If they would only listen to her nonsense...

My two points are that since the MSM illegal headlines have withered, the puppetmasters were just about to puff up a "new" old story. See front page of yesterday's USA Today to confirm. Something happened on the Hill, and by 5 p.m. Harry Reid was before the cameras, backing down. Also, why does anyone listen to the likes of Keiran, Ellen, or Julian about these subjects? Best example of this is Geraldo, who evokes such strong emotions in people. When Geraldo talks about legal matters, I always listen as I think he is a far better lawyer than, say Greta or Nancy. I don't like Dick Morris that much but I always listen when he talking about defeating the Clintons. I'd listen to Julian about driving gloves and Keiran about new motherhood, but that's it.

Give me a knowledgeable computer geek to listen to if the subject is NSA spy programs.

[AliVeritas]

Troops On The Border?http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/

[sgtyork]

I have been thinking about it and I am convinced that when I mail an envelope, a US government employee is reading to whom I have sent it. The snoops!

[an amused spectator]

LOL!

The dirty bastiches are spying on our mail, too!