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Bush Bids to Clear 'Spying' Static
NY Post ^ | May 12, 2006 | NILES LATHEM

Posted on 05/12/2006 2:54:36 AM PDT by SUSSA

click here to read article


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To: philman_36

oh..


21 posted on 05/12/2006 5:20:41 AM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: DustyMoment

And I'm posting the owner of the web site's comments about how so many freepers are making every single thread about immigration. If you don't like it, take it up with him.


22 posted on 05/12/2006 5:24:14 AM PDT by Peach
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To: SUSSA
Interesting observation from Fred Grandy on WMAL this morning. He said that in light of the recent poll which shows that the majority of Americans are not bothered by these programs (given the realities of 9/11), then it shows that the Democrats, who think they are in the mainstream, are quite the opposite.
23 posted on 05/12/2006 5:25:33 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (Freedom isn't free, but the men and women of the military will pay most of your share)
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To: DustyMoment
????? All I was doing was trying to make the point that trhere are bigger issues than this that Bush should focus on.

There ISN'T any issue bigger than the Jihad war. Yes - it's much more important than illegal Mexicans.

Yes, I know some illegals are committing crimes, but when they start killing Americans by the thousands en masse - THEN they may be an issue as big as the war on terror.

24 posted on 05/12/2006 5:29:13 AM PDT by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: Echo Talon; backhoe
I was hoping you would have a ready made list of links and info available and you'd throw the info out for viewing.

Sorry to bother you backhoe, I imagine you're busy, but do you have something quick and easy on Echelon available for folks?

25 posted on 05/12/2006 5:29:30 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: COBOL2Java
...during the Clinton administration.
Wasn't that a Democrat administration?
Aren't the Democrats now brayng the loudest?
26 posted on 05/12/2006 5:32:41 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
Take a look at this from 1999 here
27 posted on 05/12/2006 5:33:14 AM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: philman_36

oops...braying


28 posted on 05/12/2006 5:33:15 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: coconutt2000

Glad Tony Snow is there to address this media made frenzy.


29 posted on 05/12/2006 5:34:27 AM PDT by mware (Americans in armchairs doing the job of the media.)
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To: philman_36; Peach
I imagine you're busy, but do you have something quick and easy on Echelon available for folks?

Trying to catch the dog & shoo Wifey out the door... or was that catch Wifey & shoo dog?

Hattip: Peach!

NSA crunches the numbers

Democrats were okay with Eschelon and Carnivore which captured every phone call, every e-mail, every baby monitor (!), every ATM transaction and more, and that program is okay, pre war on terror, but this program isn't okay.

Eschelon and Carnivore information:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1543118/posts?page=1#1

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1542838/posts

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1543318/posts

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21387

Oops - Clinton's NSA spying program accidentally (ahem) captured a Republican's phone calls.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1553101/posts?page=1

And just for kicks, the Commies insisted on FISA:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21453

Flashback: Gore planned to bug America:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1559386/posts

NYT called domestic surveillance a necessity when Clinton was president:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1556815/posts

This is the December 2005 NYT article which says what today's USA Today article says regarding NSA collecting phone numbers. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/po...gewanted=print

Clearly, Democrats (and some RINOs) have manufactured their outrage over this already reported on program.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/politics/24spy.html?ei=5090&en=016edb46b79bde83&ex=1293080400&pagewanted=print

2 posted on 05/12/2006 8:12:51 AM EDT by Peach

30 posted on 05/12/2006 5:35:12 AM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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To: Echo Talon

For being so "hot and bothered" I sure haven't heard much from the ACLU about it.


31 posted on 05/12/2006 5:36:51 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36

no doubt.


32 posted on 05/12/2006 5:37:26 AM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: backhoe

You "DA MAN"! TYVM


33 posted on 05/12/2006 5:37:39 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36

34 posted on 05/12/2006 5:40:49 AM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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To: COBOL2Java

Yeah, a majority of Americans weren't worried about Filegate, Carnivore, or Echelon either. Democrats are out of touch this time Republicans were last time. It is truly pathetic.

I'm constantly reminded of a prophetic statement made by a FReeper when we had the rally on the Capital steps. I think it was in 1998. He and I were trying to enlighten a drug-warrior on the errors of his thinking. Nothing was getting through to the poor soul.

Any way, since we were not getting through to the poor misguided soul this FReeper dismissed him by saying; “If you really like the war on drugs, just wait until they start the war on terror, you’ll love that.”

The guy left and I said to this gentleman; “You’re right about that!”

And He said; “All they need is the right excuse.”

You may know that FReeper. He is none other than Jim Robinson.


35 posted on 05/12/2006 6:04:34 AM PDT by SUSSA
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To: Tokra
Yes - it's much more important than illegal Mexicans.

If we were not devoting so much resources to dealing with illegal aliens we would have more money to spend on national security. :)
36 posted on 05/12/2006 6:11:14 AM PDT by P-40
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To: backhoe

Hi, backhoe. I always like it better when my husband grabs me and shoos the dog :-)


37 posted on 05/12/2006 7:31:51 AM PDT by Peach
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To: Peach; philman_36
Hi, backhoe. I always like it better when my husband grabs me and shoos the dog :-)

Around here, you have to grab what you can...

I found a little more at Atlas Shrugs:

Pamela-
This is one post that I hope all your readers send to everybody they know. It's well-reasoned, absolutely accurate and not written in a strident tone that will turn off reasonable liberal skeptics. It just sounds like one adult setting the facts out for other adults:
 
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2006/05/phony_phone_foo.html
 

Phony Phone Foolishness

I am stunned by the lunatics elected by the uninformed (thank the media)  scream bloody  murder about the latest NSA canard. The 12th imam is on his way (at least ah-mad-mini-me seems to think so), the worldwide Islamic extremist movement means to take us out, and Hitler part II is playing with nuclear weaponry. To better understand the latest phone kerfuffle, Ben wrote the following ;

  Traffic Analysis

As a public service, I thought I would shed some light on what it is the NSA is doing with all those phone records.  It’s not what the media implies it is. For starters, what they are not doing:  NSA analysts are not sitting at their consoles with their headphones listening to your conversation.  They don’t know about your mistress, how smart your son is, who Emily is going out with, your dinner plans, why you hate your boss, and they don’t care.  They don’t have the time to bother because:

1)       They have phone records, not taped conversations.

2)       Even if they had conversations, they wouldn’t have a fraction of the analysts needed to listen to more than a tiny, tiny subset of conversations, and they cannot waste their time on your personal issues.

In fact, they don’t even know what number you called, when, and where.  Yes, thisSorry_wrong_number_academy_promo information exists, but buried inside machines.  No one “knows” it, just as a librarian does not “know” a fact merely because it exists in a book on a shelf in a library.  And this information will stay buried, unknown, secure and personal unless something very unusual turns up.

So here is what is being done:  traffic analysis.  This is an arcane art-science, in which the analyst, or more precisely, in this case, the algorithms designed by analysts, glean information not from the conversations themselves, but from the patterns those communications generate in time and space.  Some of it is obvious and self evident:  you can tell the difference in communications patterns between passing information and coordinating an activity, because the coordination conversations will have short return messages initiated by the non-node elements, while information is generally passed to a node from only one element, and then distributed to a larger group by the node.

After 9-11, a lot of people talked about “connecting the dots”.  This is connecting the dots.  This is using a computer to pluck patterns out of the virtual “information space” in which people communicate, without actually monitoring the information itself.  Of course, should a particular pattern be red flagged by an algorithm, it could lead to actual monitoring.

In a New Century kind of way, it’s not unlike scanning the airspace for signs of enemy bombers- something taken for granted back in the Cold War but inappropriate today, now that we have an enemy that doesn’t bother to maintain old fashioned conventional air forces.  Today we have to scan information space for signs of enemy activity.

Exactly what can be gained from traffic analysis is highly classified for obvious reasons.  Any enemy, aware that certain communications patterns meant certain things to analysts, would make an effort to change patterns, or send “false positives” to the analysts.    The New York Times is aware of this too, and so would make every effort to get this information to terrorist groups and help them thwart intelligence analysts.

The people railing against this are still living with September 10th Mentalities.  I’ve heard it over and over; it’s “Wrong” to gather intelligence unless there is a clear sign of law breaking.  On 9-11, some of those hijackers hadn’t actually committed a felony UNTIL they took over the planes- what dots, then, were we supposed to connect?  Traffic Analysis is dot connection at work.  It is not wiretapping, it is not eavesdropping.  No personal information comes into contact with another human being unless it is part of a very suspicious pattern.

Thanks Ben.
In other words, STFU already and start fighting the real war. BTW, most Americans agree.


38 posted on 05/12/2006 1:10:54 PM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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To: backhoe

That was a great read. The people who would scream the loudest if there was another attack because we didn't connect the dots are screaming now because we're trying to connect the dots. We just can't win.


39 posted on 05/12/2006 1:37:47 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Peach
That was a great read. The people who would scream the loudest if there was another attack because we didn't connect the dots are screaming now because we're trying to connect the dots. We just can't win.

It drives me crazy- the West is locked in a death struggle ( no second-place winner ) with a fanatic, implacable enemy. If they win, "civil rights" will be a taboo whispered in the dark, in private.

Rush said it best today- "It's like saying NSA can't be allowed to read a telephone book."

40 posted on 05/12/2006 4:42:50 PM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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