Posted on 05/05/2006 1:35:32 PM PDT by RobFromGa
In my letter to Rep. Linder and Mr. Boortz of August 24, 2005, I pointed out a number of what I called “serious misrepresentations” of the Fair Tax plan contained in “The FairTax Book”. I specifically named many of these by page #.
Now that the revised second issue is out, let’s see what they did to these passages in the book:
First edition page 55, you go on to explain that these embedded taxes are “in addition to the money taken out of your check in income and payroll taxes.”
Second edition- this line was eliminated. This means that they are acknowledging that the 22% embedded taxes INCLUDE the income and payroll taxes which was one of my points all along.
First edition page 59, “Once the FairTax takes effect, you’ll be receiving 100 percent of every paycheck, with no withholding of federal income taxes, Social security taxes, or Medicare taxes and you’ll be paying just about the same price for T-shirts and other consumer goods and services that you were paying before the FairTax.”
Second edition- “Once the FairTax takes effect, you’ll be in complete control of your paycheck as nothing will be withheld and your purchasing power for t-shirts and all other goods and services will be almost exactly what it was before the FairTax.”
This means that they are acknowledging that “purchasing power” will remain the same, not a big increase in purchasing power as they previously asserted with their larger paychecks/same prices verbiage. They eliminated the “100% of paycheck” wording.
First edition page 83: “Remember that the poor, along with everyone else—will no longer have Social Security taxes or Medicare taxes removed from their paychecks. Whatever they earn, they get on payday. For most of those we categorize as poor, this would mean an immediate 25 to 30 percent increase in their take-home pay.”
Second edition- “Remember that the poor, along with everyone else—will no longer have Social Security taxes or Medicare taxes removed from their paychecks. Whatever they earn, they get on payday. If employers leave this money in paychecks instead of taking it out of price, most of those we categorize as poor, this would mean an immediate 25 to 30 percent increase in their take-home pay.”
Of course, this acknowledges that the employer has a choice to make—to pay the worker his current paycheck and not reduce prices (meaning prices with FairTax added go up 30%) or to cut paychecks to present takehome levels. They cannot both give workers more takehome pay and reduce prices. The Free Lunch described in the first edition is eliminated.
First edition, page 84, you make it clear though that even though the workers will keep all of their paychecks for a big raise, you still believe that because of “the disappearance of the embedded taxes, the total price paid for consumer goods will remain very nearly the same”.
Second edition—“when you factor in the combined lower prices/higher takehome pay caused by the disappearance of the embedded taxes” prices will remain about the same.
This again acknowledges that they money currently deducted as taxes can either be used to increase take-home pay or reduce prices but not both at the same time. If they were being more honest here, they would have referred to purchasing power remaining the same rather than prices, but they are trying to put the best possible spin on this major admission.
First edition page 111, you tie it all together with a Quick Review in which you erroneously assert that “Here’s what happens when we pass and implement the FairTax plan:
“We start collecting 100 percent of our earnings on our paycheck.
“We all get virtual raises, since payroll taxes are no longer siphoned from our checks.
“The prices of consumer goods and services remain essentially the same, with the removal of the embedded taxes compensating for the added consumption tax.”
Second edition:
“We start controlling our earnings in every paycheck” (whatever that means)
“100% earnings” line is eliminated from the second edition. "virtual raises" is likewise eliminated.
“Our purchasing power for buying consumer goods and services remains essentially the same, with the removal of the embedded taxes compensating for the added consumption tax.”
This is a MAJOR difference in the Quick Review! In the first edition, they promised larger paychecks and prices remianign the same—which means a major increase in purchasing power. Of course this was a ridiculous promise. In the second edition, they say our purchasing power will be about the same.
They still left a lot of wrong and misleading verbiage throughout the book, but they addressed most of the concerns that I sent to them and removed those claims in the second book.
So tiresome. Again you confer your final stake in the heart of us fair taxers. Desperate for job security are we? Of course I have no way to know that.
If you would be so kind as to reproduce some of Mr Williams speech against the fair tax we would be obliged to engage in the debate about it. It doesn't go without notice that ancient_geezer posts his arguments with solid links and backup. You do no such thing.
And you immediately claim advantage in the debate. You obviously didn't get far in the debate society at your pristine prep school.
Solid facts? Surely you jest.
You can't even get beyond your little wet dream about me working for the IRS.
You could not pray to comprehend how wrong you are.
We're all waiting for you to tell me.
Happy cult obsessions to you.
Still haven't kicked your adhominen habit yet I see.
Call me when you have something to say rather than insult.
Good day to you.
[word]
First, the term is, "the point is moot", not "mute". Mute means silent. Moot means insignificant or irrelevant.
I think the main benefits to be gained from the Fair Tax are these:
Your critique of the paperback version of the book, BTW, fails miserably and is not even rational let alone accurate and certainly does not jibe with your initial attack on the hardcover version and several posters have advised you in the past of how the original attack was wide of the mark - even ancient_geezer (and possibly others) have pointed it out again on this thread.
You'll need to give hand signals to your disciples (who like to hype and repeat your nonsense) so that their noses aren't broken when you turn sharply to the left. That seems to be the sort of adulation you crave and they seem unable also to come up with anything other than quaint misinterpretations of the FairTax and fanciful schemes that they think will evade the law - boy are they in for a rude surprise should they actually be stupid enough to try that stuff when the FairTax passes! Guess that most of those nonsense schemes are things they practice now since much of the basic groundwork could be used under the present tax system. Do you suppose they're evading now like that? Are you?
IAE Robbie, your collective joint efforts at misdefining what the FairTax consists of is easily understood by anyone interested in knowing the truth instead of some income-based tax spin and propaganda. All that is required is to read the FairTax bill and spend a bit of time on the FairTax website which has many informative papers and links as well as helpful FAQs.
It seems that some of the Squirrels are still fixated on the idea of only corporate income taxes making up the hidden taxes and they can never admit that there are other businesses than corporate entities that also pay taxes which will be removed along with compliance costs and possibly some part of the employer portion of payroll taxes. All of those things go to reducing the prices when the FairTax takes effect so that even with the tax added back most people will end up better off from the standpoint of disposable personal income.
IOW, wages will increase markedly and prices will increase (with the tax) relative less so allowing benefits to most people - especially in view of the expansion of the economy brought about by the FairTax. I know that makes all the Squirrels crazy and to have to exist on your "cow pattys" but, hey, they chose to heap all that hero-worship on you and now they're seeing it cave in. Too bad!
Your 3 points are well taken with the only caveat being that upon reading the bill you'll see that no only is the IRS eliminated (along with other types of taxes the corresepoding tax code) but the IRS is defunded ($11 billion in 2006) and the income tax records are required to be destroyed.
There is FAR less political/tax mischief available to the pols with the FairTax as law since any such things show up in the rate effecting all taxpayers and a tax-unhappy voter that can do something to affect the government's cash cow directly PLUS voting is not a voter to be trifled with lightly.
Perhaps, mojo, you're laboring under the impression that the income-based tax systems have no tax evasion??? It wouldn't surprise.
As an example, those in the illegal economy - which is huge - go largely untaxed at present. That would be far, far more in evasion than any half-baked scheme you could dream up under the FairTax (and be fined and imprisioned for since detection is much more straightforward under the FairTax).
As usual, you make no sense. None of this has ever been about "me" it has always been about the misrepresentations of the FairTax bill you adore. If you can't see that the FairTax train has abandoned some of those claims you hold dear, then you are blind.
And the cow pie quote started with one of your cultists-- EtVig I think, I was just responding in kind.
When did you change your tune and admit all prices were going to go up substantially, but just not as much as the wages? I thought you've always said prices will stay the same or go down.
Does this look like pigdog is coming around to agreeing that prices are going to go up significantly under the FairTax? Hard to believe, if pigdog is giving up the Kool-Aid, what happens next? pigs flying?
It's not hard to tell when they let pigdog out for a few days, is it?
I juat hope he's supervised.
Does this look like pigdog is coming around to agreeing that prices are going to go up significantly under the FairTax?Kotlikoff, in his study of the FairTax, specifically, had prices going up slightly more than take home does the first year (real wages down 1%). Thus, he shows no microeconomic price/wage adjustment with the FairTax. If take home goes up, prices go up the same amount.
pigdog: IOW, wages will increase markedly and prices will increase (with the tax) relative less so allowing benefits to most peopleWages will increase? What's going to make wages increase?
The only thing for sure is the tax, everything else is...well, see my tag line.
I expect we'll soon hear the pigdog standard reply: "I never said ... stop putting words in my mouth."
Or pigdog will merely maintain that was his position all along. It is amazing how many times pigdog throws out insults in a post where he admits he has been wrong for over 7 years.
Indeed, prices will go down and takehome wages will greatly increase. I have always said that wages & withholding have not been part of embedded taxes and that there is sufficient room in removing business income taxes (and probably the employer portion of w/h) along with compliance costs that prices will decrease a good amount.
Even with the addition of the FairTax to these lowered prices, most taxpayers will end up with more disposable personal income that at present. It is you yo-yos that have been (and still are) making the misrepresentations about prices increasing and wages declining at the same time since you yourself are an admitted SQL guy despite your initial false pretense when you initially tried to worm your way into the threads by falsely pretending to be "for" the FairTax is only one little point could be explained for you (yeah, right!!!) - or perhaps you've forgotten the dishonesty you displayed?
At any rate ytour posturing that the book authors have somehow "reversed their position" or "abandoned some of those claims" is nothing but fol-de-rol since your are the ones making the false statements you put forth as though they made such claims when that was always only your own misbegotten interpretation of what was said ... and still is.
Your vanity posts are ALL about you and your grossly inflated ego friend. Your ego and your eagerness to warp and misrepresent claiming that somehow others are lying by trying to put your own spin in their mouths.
Your cow pies are still just that.
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