Posted on 04/16/2006 11:47:35 AM PDT by wagglebee
Newt Gingrich, the architect of the 1994 GOP Revolution, is warning that Republicans in Congress better "get their act together" and pass tough new laws against illegal immigration - or the Democrats will win back the House and Senate in November.
Appearing on "Fox News Sunday," the former House Speaker scorched his successors for a lack of performance across a whole range of issues, but zeroed in on what he called "the debacle two weeks ago on immigration."
"The [Senate's] McCain-Kennedy bill and the compromise that followed is so far from what the average American wants," Gingrich said, "that it raises the danger of Republican [voters] staying home."
The one-time top Republican noted that in poll after poll, the public has demanded tougher border security and reforms like a voter ID card, saying it would be easy to put Democrats on the defensive on the illegal immigration issue.
"I'd be perfectly happy for the Senate Republicans to bring up a border control bill and have Hillary and Schumer try to stop it," Gingrich told Fox.
"Sometimes incumbents forget that we were sent here to reform Washington, we were not sent here to be co-opted by Washington," he added. "For Republicans to succeed in '06 and '08 we need real change."
"The question for Republicans in the next 90 days is: Are they going to become the party of real change?" Gingrich said. "Are they going to learn some lessons and get their act together?"
Bush veto? Surely you jest. Nope, if the Rats take Congress, there will be more pandering to the left from Bush. Bush has the stones to defeat Al Qaeda but when it comes to the 'Rats he won't lift a finger to defeat them. Bush doesn't get that Al Qaeda and the 'Rats aims are the same.
Okay, so read the link you provide, and it is a long diatribe that says in one part ... "What do think we should do, when you keep ignoring our rights, our needs, our wishes, and our demands?"
Let me ask you again ... The House passage of HR 4377 gave you *exactly* the kind of bill you are demanding. The border fences and technology, sealing the border, immigration enforcement, etc. The Whole Nine Yards.
What are you going to do to reward the GOP for this action?
NOTHING?!?
And if you arent willing to reward them in some way for doing what you want, why act surprised when they cater to other interests?
"I agree... It's just that we all know that if we give what is in effect amnesty with a promise to close the border later that they will never get around to closing the border. So close the damn border first."
My own Congressman, Lamar Smith (R-TX) has been giving that same advice for some time. Basically, we cant trust the amnesty/guest worker programs, so just do the enforcement stuff *first*, get it locked into place and *then* deal with the complexities of new visa programs etc. .. he even gave it as a fax direct to Karl Rove, we know because it accidently got sent to a Democrat somewhere and ended up on the internet!
"The bad assumption is assuming conservatives are even going to vote since the GOP refuses to listen to them."
Do you think the passage of HR 4377 reflects a failure of the Republican House to listen to cosnervatives? Why?
A: "Republican [voters] staying home."
B: "Thus giving aid and comfort to America's enemies."
Antisocial: "America has quite a few enemies in the US Senate."
Yes, and it will take CONSERVATIVES GOING TO THE POLLS to clean that up!
I think any true patriot will do their duty on election day, and I hope most here *consider it a duty* to serve this country by voting for what is best for America this election day.
And a BTW to all grumbling conservatives - if you dont vote in primaries, remember that is another way to influence this country even more powerfully.
"I stated major issues on which they have broken with us time and again the last two years as having a cumulative effect."
Yes, and I wasnt going to touch the whole diatribe, but to dispute the basic flawed premise, on immigration but true on so many issues, i.e. the phony claim that Democrats and Republicans are not much different. As if one can't tell the difference between a Senator Sessions, conservative Republican, and a Senator Schumer, leftwing liberal partisan Democrat.
How can the GOP 'break with you' when you (a) say you are not even Rebublican and (b) when they *DO WHAT YOU WANT*, you dont even give em credit.
"I also stated the ONE thing they came through on lately was Alito and Roberts, but ONLY after conservatives led a revolt. "
Roberts and Alito one more case in point - there was no conservative revolt prior to Roberts. both nominations were made by the President and passed by Republicans unanimously. The Democrats would have gutted both if they could.
"it was about the fact I do not TRUST Republicans have any INTENT to honor our wishes nor their campaign promises. "
After tax cuts, energy bill that made a lot of things better, Alito, Roberts, HR4377, etc.
"Yet predictably you assign me the category of a one issue "unappeaseable". " ... you 'unappeaseable'? I never said that. Your words not mine, but if the shoe fits ...
"Really? What reward will you give the House Republicans for passing the seal-the-borders, law-and-order-on-immigration sensennbrenner bill?"
"Depends on whether they passed it because they never expected the Senate to do so and they'd get credit with their constituents, or whether it's a trustworthy proposition. One they will hold firm to."
It's the Bill you say you want, and they passed it in the House.
"Looking at history it was the Republicans that freed the slaves and we see how many blacks vote Republican don't we. You gain nothing in absolute terms by pandering to a population. The republicans lost the black vote over the next 100 years because of its stance on issues. When it comes to politics people have a short term memory."
Interesting point raised.
Yes, Lincoln freed the slaves and blacks were Republicans in the 'reconstruction era' in the south. The KKK/Confederates in the Democrat party ended that real quick and regained total political control in the 1870s in the South.
The Democrat party at that time was the party of the cities (immigrants) and the south. Over the next 100 years, the blacks got pulled into the Democrat party more and more - why? Because the only viable party where all the blacks live was... the Democrat party! FDR got inroads into black vote, even though the Democrats were still the segregationist party. Then 1960s era Civil Rights, LBJ, etc. sealed the deal until present day.
Key factors were where blacks lived and their socio-economic status. Urban, poor or southern poor.
... I bring it up because I read today that Latinos are highly urbanized. it matters not one whit that most Latinos are cutlural conservatives ... they are poor, urbanized, immigrants. The ones that become middle-class suburban types, GOP has a chance, but the urban poor immigrants? Expect 75-80% Democrat voters. Reps Kennedy, Moran see the Irish of 1870s in their midst. They will be a mostly Democrat voting block, and, here's the kicker - THE ACUTAL POSITIONS OF EITHER PARTY ON IMMIGRATION LAW WILL NOT MATTER A WHIT ON THE MATTER.
I'd say the one thing that *might* help us is a prolife position that gets us in the door at Catholic churches, that's it.
So Bush and Clinton are the same then. I'm starting to see that myself. It appears that in the last 16 yrs 1/2 the country wanted to throw the president out of office. This is not good for our country. The problem is that Clinton and Bush and the political system as a whole have made lying an art form. Then once they are in the office they govern however they see fit. I state that if the real Clinton or the real Bush was on the campaign trail they would not receive 1/8 of the vote. Yet when these people are coached and feed policy position after policy position just to get votes. They seem like great people. Two of our greatest Presidents and leaders Washington and Lincoln would still be able to be elected today because they believed in what they said. I listen to Bush and Clinton and I hear someone else's words and emotions. They do not even write their own speeches. They say whatever is needed to get elected. You can see it is their eyes hear it their tone. I think one of the reasons people believed so strongly in Bush was his speech on the ruble. It was one of the first times that one of our leaders spoke from the heart. We as a people hunger for this IMO. If the politicians want to avoid this voter remorse and be able to lead this country to great heights then they must stop lying to the American people during the election campaign and be their own person.
You can bet on that. But what do you propose we do to bring back the near 60 percent conservatives and patriots who will consider it their duty to vote according to how they voted on the the FR poll if the poll questions are not resolved by November? If even half of that number vote according to the poll vote, thirty percent is a fatal bite.
Again, what should be done before November? Not what candidates should we vote for and support, but what should the Republicans in government do today?
Why blame Americans? Bush 41 and Dole were lackluster Republicans, and Perot split their vote.
Yes, I would give most of the blame to the GOP, as I would now. Let's face it, most of us would like someone in the Reagan mold. But Reagan never was very popular with the GOP elites.
(Who eats lettuce anyway? It's phlegm food, hard to chew, and sticks in your throat.)
Me: "I think any true patriot will do their duty on election day, and I hope most here *consider it a duty* to serve this country by voting for what is best for America this election day."
You: "You can bet on that. But what do you propose we do to bring back the near 60 percent conservatives and patriots who will consider it their duty to vote according to how they voted on the the FR poll if the poll questions are not resolved by November? If even half of that number vote according to the poll vote, thirty percent is a fatal bite."
Well, I have my own judgment on the right message to send and the right way to vote, but I wont presume that others are less patriotic if they come to a different conclusion.
But
"Again, what should be done before November? Not what candidates should we vote for and support, but what should the Republicans in government do today?"
To me, its fairly obvious: The GOP should take the bill the GOP House passed, add in a limited guest worker program that does *not* have amnesty ... in other words, take the Kyl-Cornyn bill, and try to get it through the Senate. The Democrats will filibuster it ... if it's passed, then we will merge it with House bill and have a reasonable bill for Bush to sign ... if it fails, it will be perfectly obvious that Democrat obstruction prevented the border security and other provisions to enforce immigration law.
Neither outcome (nothing, or Kyl-Cornyn or HR4377 style bill) would be bad, and neither would be even remotely as bad as what the McCain-Kennedy bil represents.
I fear 2 things...
1) McCain-Kennedy full-bore-amnesty for 10 million bill (would be a disaster)
2) Democrat gains in Nov that would lead to the wrong conclusion by both RINOs and Democrats, that we should have an 'amnesty' bill ... which would lead back to #1.
"When Clinton was elected and reelected, I became convinced that Americans do the dumbest things."
"Why blame Americans? "
Uh, because they *VOTED* to make it happen.
Bush 41 was a real President, and for all his faults far better than Clinton.
It didn't. Our wonderful Republican senators made sure of that.
I don't like Clinton either, but that just shows Americans rarely get the choices they deserve.
Actually, the number is three. (1) WOT (2) Illegal Immigration (3) Supreme Court.
All other issues pale beside them.
The dems are wrong on all three. The R's are right on two of the three. But there's no consolation prize for 2 out of 3 for these issues. Nor is it horshshoes and there's no prizes for a good try. We have to win all three to keep our nation resonably intact.
So the left in in an enviable situation, despite their minority status, in a weird sort of way. All they have to do is prevail on one of these three issues and they will have succeded in ripping the fabric of our nation apart, which appears to be their goal.
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