Fossil Find Is Missing Link in Human Evolution, Scientists Say

National Geographic News ^ | April 13, 2006 | John Roach

[Senator Bedfellow]

When the famous skeleton of an early human ancestor known as Lucy was discovered in Africa in the 1970s, scientists asked: Where did she come from?

Now, fossils found in the same region are providing solid answers, researchers have announced.

Lucy is a 3.5-foot-tall (1.1-meter-tall) adult skeleton that belongs to an early human ancestor, or hominid, known as Australopithecus afarensis.

The species lived between 3 million and 3.6 million years ago and is widely considered an ancestor of modern humans.

The new fossils are from the most primitive species of Australopithecus, known as Australopithecus anamensis. The remains date to about 4.1 million years ago, according to Tim White, a biologist at the University of California, Berkeley.

White co-directed the team that discovered the new fossils in Ethiopia (map) in a region of the Afar desert known as the Middle Awash.

The team says the newly discovered fossils are a no-longer-missing link between early and later forms of Australopithecus and to a more primitive hominid known as Ardipithecus.

"What the new discovery does is very nicely fill this gap between the earliest of the Lucy species at 3.6 million years and the older [human ancestor] Ardipithecus ramidus, which is dated at 4.4 million years," White said.

The new fossil find consists mainly of jawbone fragments, upper and lower teeth, and a thigh bone.

The fossils are described in today's issue of the journal Nature.

Found Links

According to White, the discovery supports the hypothesis that Lucy was a direct descendent of Australopithecus anamensis.

[Conservative Texan Mom]

I don't doubt that they would wish to convert me. And, if they couldn't they would kill me. This may seem quite logical to a muslim. It is not logical to humanity(in my western philosophical view), but I doubt they care.

I really liked this statement of yours:

(Mankind is what he sees in others and what other see in him, therefore he has a moral and ethical responsibility to conduct himself in such a manner that he is observed as benefactor rather than a hindrance to Mankind.)

This may not be logical to a muslim. I am a Christian, and this fits with my philosophy. But, there are some who also claim Christianity as their religion, and this may not fit theirs. So perhaps people of the same "religion" have differing philosophies, as it applies to a belief system anyway.

I think that muslim's may have very little philosophy apart from religion and very little flexibility as to the interpretation of their religion. Although, there is obviously some. In short, their religion shapes their philosophy. The same can be said for other religions, including Christianity. There are exceptions though, where a person may tailor their philosophy to accommodate both religion and science. In this case it would depend on the flexibility of their interpretation of religion, since there is not flexibility in science. There are also those which prefer the exclusion of religion. It is silly to suggest that these people would have "substandard" values, though. I have read such things on these threads. Those who reject religion derive their values from other sources. Very often, they reason what is beneficial to themselves and mankind, and derive values based on that. I believe that some on these threads think that those who reject religion only value science, and equate humans as highly evolved animals with animal instincts. They think that without religion one can not have a sense of right and wrong, and is thus subject to their "animal instincts." There are certainly, some people in the world who hold this as their philosophy, but it is incorrect to assume that all who reject religion fit into this category. There are other ways of arriving at a value system.

I think this may be why I like you so well. I am a Christian, but we seem to have similar values. I don't know if you are of any particular belief or not. But, I think you may have arrived at a value system based on what you see as beneficial to mankind. I also think that is a very impartial way to do so, which would avoid irrational judgment. Now, this is my 0p!n!0n (remember, naughty word). I believe in God. I also believe that God wishes us to live in a way that is beneficial to mankind, thus I arrive at my value system. My interpretation of Christianity is in line with this system, and incorporated into my philosophical belief. So you and I may not agree on everything as pertaining to religion, and science, but I do think we have very similar philosophical values.

[Iscool]

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

As I said earlier, folks don't have a real problem understanding the bible, they have trouble believing it...Some people don't like what it says, so they change it...

According to this verse, we will see Jesus when he appears...I'm assuming a 'Spirit' or 'Soul' would be hard to see...

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved

The Apostle Paul seems to think we will have a preserved physical body...

We have a body, soul and spirit...A trinity...In the image of God...Father, Son, Holy Spirit...

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

If we chose to believe the bible, God has a physical body, in the image of Jesus Christ...

Phi 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Phi 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

The Bible's pretty clear...God has a body, a soul and a spirit, just as we do...

[Conservative Texan Mom]

I have no problem believing anything the Bible says. I also don't change it. The Bible does use IMAGEry to explain things that are difficult to grasp. Your example in Revelations the other day was perfect for this. God's Eyes were of firey flames, His Voices like many waters, He had two swords coming from His mouth. These sound like IMAGES of authority. There are many definitions for the word image. How do you know which he was referring to?
n.
A reproduction of the form of a person or object, especially a sculptured likeness.
Physics. An optically formed duplicate, counterpart, or other representative reproduction of an object, especially an optical reproduction formed by a lens or mirror.
One that closely or exactly resembles another; a double: He is the image of his uncle.

The opinion or concept of something that is held by the public.
The character projected to the public, as by a person or institution, especially as interpreted by the mass media.
A personification of something specified: That child is the image of good health.
A mental picture of something not real or present.

A vivid description or representation.
A figure of speech, especially a metaphor or simile.
A concrete representation, as in art, literature, or music, that is expressive or evocative of something else: night as an image of death.
Mathematics. A set of values of a function corresponding to a particular subset of a domain.
Computer Science. An exact replica of the contents of a storage device, such as a hard disk, stored on a second storage device, such as a network server.
Obsolete. An apparition.

tr.v. im·aged, im·ag·ing, im·ag·es
To make or produce a likeness of: imaged the poet in bronze.
To mirror or reflect: a statue imaged in the water.
To symbolize or typify: a kneeling woman imaging the nation's grief.
To picture mentally; imagine.
To describe, especially so vividly as to evoke a mental picture of.
Computer Science.
To print (a file) using a laser printer, imagesetter, direct-to-plate press, or similar device.
To transmit (an exact replica of the contents of a storage device) to another storage device: imaged the hard drive to the server.
To render visually, as by magnetic resonance imaging.


image·less adj.
imag·er n.

im·age (mj)
n.

An optically formed duplicate or other representative reproduction of an object, especially an optical reproduction of an object formed.< (>According to this verse, we will see Jesus when he appears...I'm assuming a 'Spirit' or 'Soul' would be hard to see...) Such limitations. This shouldn't be a problem for God. Read the defintions for image if you haven't already. You can see an Image without it being a physical body.
1 Thessalonians 5:23

23May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.


Paul was not referring to God here. He is referring to the Christians in Thessolonica.


(We have a body, soul and spirit...A trinity...In the image of God...Father, Son, Holy Spirit...)

We may have a body, but this still does not say that God does, or that is what is meant by His Image.


(Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?)

Was it Jesus's body that made him God's son? I don't believe so. I think it was much deeper than anything physical that makes him God's son. They saw the father because of who Jesus was, what he could do, what he taught, the example he set.


(2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.)

I don't want to worship Christ because He looks like God in a physical sense. He may, or may not, but His Image is far more than something I can see. Furthermore, this scripture is referring to the Gospel of Christ. How does the Gospel resemble a physical body? How does a physical body shine into us? Read things in context please. Don't just pick out words.


(Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high)


So which is the imagery here, Jesus is the brightness of His glory, or the Image of His person? This also says


(Phi 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.)

Here it says our VILE body is fashioned like unto His glorious body. Vile, and Glorious are two ends of the spectrum. How can we physically be in His Image when we are vile and He is glorious?

[Iscool]

You said,
Furthermore, this scripture is referring to the Gospel of Christ. How does the Gospel resemble a physical body? How does a physical body shine into us? Read things in context please. Don't just pick out words.

(2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Not picking out words as you suggest...Who, refers to Christ...Who can not possibly refer to the gospel...

You said
So which is the imagery here, Jesus is the brightness of His glory, or the Image of His person?

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person

It's pretty clear it's both...The key word is and

You said
Here it says our VILE body is fashioned like unto His glorious body. Vile, and Glorious are two ends of the spectrum. How can we physically be in His Image when we are vile and He is glorious

Phi 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

I'm mystified...You tell me I'm wrong when you misquote the verse every time...As you can see, our vile bodies get changed into glorious bodies...

[Fruit of the Spirit]

An atheist was walking through the woods. He said to himself:
"What majestic trees!"
"What powerful rivers!"
"What beautiful animals!"

As he was walking alongside the river, he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to look.
He saw a 7-foot grizzly charge towards him.
He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder & saw that the bear was closing in on him. He looked over his shoulder again, & the bear was even closer.

He tripped & fell on the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up but saw that the bear was right on top of him, reaching for him with his left paw & raising his right paw to strike him.

At that instant the Atheist cried out, "Oh my God!!!"

Time Stopped.
The bear froze.
The forest was silent.

As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky.

"You deny my existence for all these years, teach others I don't exist and even credit creation to cosmic accident. Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?"

The atheist looked directly into the light and said, "It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask You to treat me as a Christian now, but perhaps You could make the BEAR a Christian?"

"Very well," said the voice.

The light went out.
The sounds of the forest resumed.
And the bear dropped his right paw, brought both paws together, bowed his head & spoke:

"Lord bless this food, which I am about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our Lord, Amen"

[Conservative Texan Mom]

Well, this is the first time I've quoted this verse, and i still agree with myself.

If our bodies are vile, and we are created in His Image, how is His body glorious if it is a physical body.

He changes our vile bodies, yes. Into glorious his glorious body, yes. Don't know that it means physical though. The word body is also used as symbolism.

Please read these examples, but most importantly read 1 Corinthians 15:35 through the end of the chapter. After that please do not tell me I don't believe the Bible again.
(
35See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness. 36Therefore, if your whole body is full of light, and no part of it dark, it will be completely lighted, as when the light of a lamp shines on you.')

Body is referring to spirit here.

There is the symbolism of bread being the Lord's body.

Romans 12:5
so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.

1 Corinthians 12:27
27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

Body is referring to the church here.

This is very informative!

35But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[e]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[f] bear the likeness of the man from heaven


Please take notice of verse 44.

The point is not that I am right, or you are wrong. You may be right, but then again, you may not be. Just because someone sees a different interpretation does not mean that they are not believing, or trying to change the Bible.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person

I was pointing out the use of imagery in this verse. The Bible is full of imagery! Which is why there is a great deal of interpretation.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"An atheist was walking through the woods. He said to himself: "

What a disgusting story. Is that supposed to reflect well on Christianity? Someone who loved the beauty of God's creation gets eaten by a *Christian* bear all because he didn't believe God existed? A God who didn't have personal, emotional issues would have been happy that his work was appreciated and left it at that. He would not have a childish need for recognition.

Also, it's moot as evolution is not atheistic. :)

[jec41]

"Lord bless this food, which I am about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our Lord, Amen"

A tired old tale but the wish of some Christians.

Accept your God and you can kill and eat others.

If one does not accept your God they should be killed and eaten.

You have not the ability to accomplish such yourself so you would wish your god to do it for you?

Are you of some new Christian sect that believes accept my god or be killed and eaten or do you think that to be a basic Christian faith and belief?

Interesting, does your daily chant or prayer start with accept my god or be killed and eaten or has it progressed simply to the chant and prayer of kill and eat all infidels and nonbelievers?

If so your religion is not new but old and ongoing by some. However they have shorten their chant even further to simply;

KILL ALL INFIDELS AND NONBELIVERS.

[Fruit of the Spirit]

Rev. 5

7 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come!"

8 And I saw, and behold, a pale horse, and its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him; and they were given power over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

[dread78645]

What a disgusting story. Is that supposed to reflect well on Christianity?

II Kings 2:23-24
And don't mock the old bald guy -- especially if he's named Elijah.

[jec41]

I think this may be why I like you so well. I am a Christian, but we seem to have similar values. I don't know if you are of any particular belief or not.

I neither accept nor deny any religious faith and belief of philosophy and that includes atheism and other philosophy. Philosophy is faith and belief by argument for a unknown. I have no new argument or fact or knowledge that would either prove or disprove any philosophy and for that reason for me it simply remains unknown. Philosophy is both rational and irrational. It is both destructive and a benefit to mankind. Until significant knowledge or all things are known as fact, philosophy will mostly determine mankind and the progression or digression of mankind.

I am not of Descartes and believe that most of what is around me can be determined by my senses. Although the reliability of my senses is not proof or a 100% truth and sometimes fail me, there is a method that tests my observation by the senses and I rely on that method.

[jec41]

7 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come!" 8 And I saw, and behold, a pale horse, and its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him; and they were given power over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

Hades is Zeus' brother and ruler of the underworld and the dead. He was also called Pluto - God of Wealth, because the precious metals buried deep in earth were in his realm. The name Pluto was used by both the Greeks and the Romans, and it translated into Latin as Dis - "rich." Although he was an Olympian he spent most of the time in his dark castle in the underworld. Because of his dark personality he was not especially liked by neither the gods nor the mortals, he was not however, an evil god, he was stern, unpitying and inexorable, but just. Hades ruled the underworld and therefore most often associated with death and feared by men, but he was not Death itself, the actual embodiment of Death was another god - Thanatos.

A rehash of Greek mythology believed still by the Romans. In fact the burial site where the bodies of the dead were thrown over the wall of Rome to be eaten by wild animals was called Hades. They scared and threaten little children who were misbehaving by threatening to throw them into Hades.

Now you use a verse to propose Thanatos (death) and Hades are coming to get us. Who sent them. Hades brother Zeus?

It may come as a surprise to you but death will visit us all until there is a fact of mortality. Oh by the way that forth was by the Providence of Zeus and who he himself could not enter.

[Conservative Texan Mom]

Your method works well!

[donh]

I don't doubt that they would wish to convert me. And, if they couldn't they would kill me. This may seem quite logical to a muslim. It is not logical to humanity(in my western philosophical view), but I doubt they care.

Before y'all break out in hosannas over how much more humane christianity is than islam, you might consider consulting the historical record as to what religion holds the slam dunk world's record over putting folks to the sword or torch for refusing to convert.

[Conservative Texan Mom]

(Before y'all break out in hosannas over how much more humane christianity is than islam, you might consider consulting the historical record as to what religion holds the slam dunk world's record over putting folks to the sword or torch for refusing to convert.)

I won't dispute that one. I am aware of Christianity's past reputation. It does not fit my philosophy. I also don't believe those deeds were what Christ intended as a method of conversion.

[jec41]

Before y'all break out in hosannas over how much more humane christianity is than islam, you might consider consulting the historical record as to what religion holds the slam dunk world's record over putting folks to the sword or torch for refusing to convert.

Perhaps you should reread my posts. I have not proposed a acceptance or denial of any religion or philosophy. For me all religion is unknown and is by faith and belief. I am also aware of the many atrocities or benefits by faith and belief upon mankind. Religion is not my aspiration.

[Conservative Texan Mom]

This is another interesting verse to keep one's mind open about such things.

Col 1:15

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

[Iscool]

This is another interesting verse to keep one's mind open about such things.

In my view, you don't have to go to a dictionary or an encyclopedia or the unoriginal Greek to understand what image means...

I learned what image means back in grade school...

I've spent enough time in the bible to be completely convinced that God is a Trinity...The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit...We are made in God's image...We have a body, a soul and a spirit...God has a body, a soul and a (Holy) spirit...

We were made after God's kind...Not after a bird's or snake's kind...The bible is 'clear' on that...Birds were not made after a fish's kind...And cow's were not made after a flower's kind...The bible is clear on that...

There is no evolution outside of a species...I think God created the Platypuss just to make a mockery of science...

[Conservative Texan Mom]

Just so you know, I did not go back to the original Hebrew to determine the correct translation of the word image. I did use the dictionary as an example of it's various meanings, but even that isn't necessary. The Bible, on it's own, demonstrates the use of the word "Image" in a variety of ways. It also demonstrates the use of the word "body" as not always pertaining to the physical.

The examples I posted to you were from the Bible, and were also very clear.

More so,I believe that God is a trinity. I also believe that Jesus is God, as is the Holy Spirit. My husband uses the analogy of water. It can be steam, liquid, or ice, but all are H20. I have always consider a soul, and our spirit to be the same thing. Which messes up the analogy of them as representing the trinity for me.
I do see your point if you are referring to Jesus, when he was on earth as God's body, the Holy spirit as God's power, and God as "Who He is". To be truthful, I'm not certain the trinity is something we can completely understand.

I also learned the meaning of the word "image" in it's most simple and basic use in grade school. But my education continued past that, and I learned that the word "image" could have other representation as well. It is like I said, it's not that you are wrong, you may not be! But, then again, you may be. I'm just encouraging you to consider that there are other Christians who love the Lord with all their heart, soul, strength and mind, but do see things a little different on matters not pertaining to salvation.

As for this last part.


(We were made after God's kind...Not after a bird's or snake's kind...The bible is 'clear' on that...Birds were not made after a fish's kind...And cow's were not made after a flower's kind...The bible is clear on that...)

We are in agreement.

[Iscool]

One preacher I know likens the body to a tire, or football...The outer section is the body, the inner tube is the soul and the air to inflate it is the spirit...