Replies

Dog --

It became a bash Bush thread the minute it went up -- doesn't take long as the same folks on here hit thread after thread bashing Bush even if it doesn't pertain.

They might as well change the name of Free Republic to 'Bash Bush' website which would better reflect some moronic postings I have been reading day after day and why I quit posting as much.

These anti-Bush types don't have a disagreement, they hate. Their comments are rude, nasty, and a lot of time outright lies which have to be debunked. This site is deteriorating rapidly with the posters that have always been anti-Bush except now they have been joined by their friends from the RATs and they get by with spamming every thread with their trash.

These folks are making it hard for a lot of posters who have been here for a long time to even want to come here. We used to have news from around the world and now it is becoming a site for the immigration nutcases (and yes I said nutcases) to gather. With some of the radical nutcase posts I have seen, it has made me become ashamed to be on the same site with these folks, but I hate to leave after all these years and leave it to these folks who just HATE. There is not rationale discussion about what needs to be done or even suggestions, but just pure HATE being spewed.

I have always been against giving citizenship to babies born here of immigrant parents. One of the problems I see is that some of here don't see the difference between immigrants and illegal and have tar and feathered anyone from Mexico. My best friend in Texas had roots to Mexico but her family was in the Hill Country of Texas before the Alamo and Texas became a State. My family came here in the 1600's as immigrants to this Great Land. This Country was built on the backs of immigrants from all corners of the Earth who came here seeking a better life for them and their families.

Some folks on here need to go back and read what happened about immigration under President Reagan, a man I greatly admire. Obviously some on here don't have a clue and have jumped on the bandwagon because they can freely bash Pres Bush and the Republicans in Congress. Some of you need to stop and really read some of these comments. There are many good people who happen to disagree on what should be done but their voices are drowned out by the continual spamming of the threads and driving people away.

We have Senators like Dr. Coburn who understand the problem and are trying to do something and yet they are attacked by the zealots on here. A lot of the zealots come from States that have two liberal Senators but you would never know from the posts where they tar and feather all the Senators including my two -- Coburn and Inhofe. Tells me they are here to disrupt this site, and split Republicans, and I give them credit -- they are accomplishing that on here.

Now some of us are faced with the decision -- do we stay and fight for a site that we have devoted hours to in order to inform people who read this about the truth or do we go away like so many other good posters.

Some of these most zealot folks spend all day on here -- who is paying their salary? This inquiring mind would like to know!

I have used the Bush ping list because I think the people on that list even if we disagree on immigration are willing to come up with a rationale discussion not just spamming every thread. We have a choice -- we can work together to weed out the people here to disrupt who have now attached themselves to the immigration issue or we can fade away.

There are good people on both sides of the immigration issue that need to be heard. Rounding up 11 million people and shipping them back to Mexico is not the answer. If the zealots would bother to read the figures, they would realize that all 11 million people here illegally did not all come from Mexico.

People better be more interested in the people who came here on student visas and stayed long after those visas expired -- those are the brains and much more dangerous then the people out cutting down cedar trees or working on roofs in 100 degree heat.

My two cents on this lovely Oklahoma morning and the birthday of my youngest daughter. Out to finish my shopping for her and enjoying the weather.

God Bless!

The MSM and far right wing of like the John Birchers tried to bury RR with lies and bs like this. It didn't work then, and it will not work now.

I agree 100 percent.

Superb post, PKM! You are a voice of reason in these contentious times. I too have noticed the gleeful "bashers", and try to ignore them in favor of the thoughtful posters, even if the latter sometimes disagree with my positions. I understand that free speech is robust, often offensive, but their freedom to spout hate doesn't mean I have to buy into that kind of lowness.

I am a self-proclaimed Bushbot who loves this President dearly; he inspires me in a way that no other President has: to do and be better. He was dealt an awful hand, and he has triumphed over overwhelming odds. I would rather keep faith in him (and the common sense of the number of people who do think for themselves) than the awful, antique media. Thank heavens for places like FR! But you're right, the freedom of FR means that it also plays host to some corrosively destructive agents and leftist plants. Right now, "they" are stirring the pot on illegal immigration in a (pathetic) attempt to have us turn on ourselves in a frenzy of emotion instead of the cool logic the situation needs.

Thanks for saying what needed to be said, and thanks for finding the courage to do so.

>>>>We used to have news from around the world and now it is becoming a site for the immigration nutcases (and yes I said nutcases) to gather.

I see you're really no better then the other FReepers running around FR posing as conservatives. Take me off your pinglist(s) and don't ever ping me to any post of yours again. Thank you.

I completely agree with you, and it's why I haven't been posting much.

There is so little rationality on the immigration debate, that I have for all practical purposes turned off all news sources. I'm sick and tired of it, and I'm sick of watching people getting whipped into a frenzy once again.

The only broadcast people I listen to anymore are Tony Snow and Brit Hume.

I agree with your assessments PKM, especially on the motives of the thread spammers. And IMO, they should receive a suspension for incessant thread spamming. It is NOT helpful to discourse it is hijacking.

Friendly suggestion Jim and mods.

We used to have news from around the world and now it is becoming a site for the immigration nutcases (and yes I said nutcases) to gather.

Those people are the exception rather than the rule here. And any bigoted or violent posts get promptly removed.

I'm sorry, but Bush is on the wrong side of history and logic and public opinion with his pseudo-amnesty program. The guest-worker program in Europe led to their current crisis with Islamists. Reagan's amnesty failed - it failed to heed the conservative credo that if you reward illegal behavior, you tend to get more of it. And public opinion ranges from strong to overwhelming on issues relating to illegal immigration. Combine all those, and Bush's stance on this issue is puzzling at the least.

Bush is not up for re-election ever gain. But all GOP members of the House are up for re-election this year, and they are the vanguard against damaging changes to our immigration laws. Bush really needs to back off his pseudo-amnesty/guest worker calls because he is threatening the re-election chances of House members. If y'all are truly concerned about the long-term health of the GOP, I would suggest you start telling Bush that he is on the wrong side of the issue and he needs to get on the right side in a hurry. Until that happens, much of the vitriol directed against Bush on this site over illegal immigration and border control is deserved.

There are good people on both sides of the immigration issue that need to be heard. Rounding up 11 million people and shipping them back to Mexico is not the answer. If the zealots would bother to read the figures, they would realize that all 11 million people here illegally did not all come from Mexico.

You are mischaracterizing what post after post has been about; to generalize and say that everyone is calling for "rounding up 11 million people and shipping them back to Mexico" is blatantly false.

We used to have news from around the world and now it is becoming a site for the immigration nutcases (and yes I said nutcases) to gather. With some of the radical nutcase posts I have seen, it has made me become ashamed to be on the same site with these folks, but I hate to leave after all these years and leave it to these folks who just HATE.

Yet you said that there are "good people on both sides." You contradict yourself...those with whom you don't agree you call nutcases....or radical nutcases. Those with whom don't agree with you about praising Bush all day all the time about all his policies/actions are lumped as Bush-haters and RATS.

I'd appreciate you taking me off your ping list. I don't agree with your mischaracterizations of many folks who disagree with you; and I don't agree that to be patriotic, one must be a lemming. And most especially, I don't agree that those who criticize the president, or any other elected official, to the degree in which they deserve such criticism, is expressing anything other than what Republican President Roosevelt said is the DUTY of America's citizens:

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else."

It's not just the Bush/immigration threads. Civil discourse is waning. Reading an article on FR can be informative. It's just not as much fun weeding through the comments and trying to find a reply that is based on reason. This kills the conversational aspect of the thread, where everyone could learn from one another. Fewer and fewer facts are being posted, to begin with.

Many good points, friend. I feel your frustration. (I do disagree on your point about "rounding up" 11 million people, but you and I can disagree rationally.)

Happy birthday to your daughter.

Finally...an intelligent post!

I have used the Bush ping list because I think the people on that list even if we disagree on immigration are willing to come up with a rationale discussion not just spamming every thread. We have a choice -- we can work together to weed out the people here to disrupt who have now attached themselves to the immigration issue or we can fade away.

Hi PhiKap. Long time since we communicated.

I agree with the tone issues you raise in your post. We're the good guys and W is partly on our side--way more than the dems. I would like to see respect for his accomplishments as well as more respectful criticism for his goofs.

As to sorting folks out. Gonna be hard to do. There are times when I am screamingly frustrated with W on issues like immigration, CFR, Prescription Drugs and spending--all of which clearly involved anti-conservative positions. Some of my frustration has probably comes out in posts.

OTOH, W has proved he will prosecute the WOT aggressively and proactively, even if it means the second guessers will be able to point to mistakes made in that process and say AHA@#! If necessary, I believe W will use nuclear bunker busters in Iran. His SC appointments (other than Miers) have been great. And, on most business issues, he has a good record--tax cuts, bankruptcy reform and tort reform. These are non-trivial points because no viable democrat has any agenda other than surrender to OBL and collectivize our nation as quickly as possible.

And I think that's true for a lot of good conservatives--we get frustrated and it comes out online. And sometimes we forget that trashing W advances the cause of surrender to OBL.

IMHO, the hardest issue to remember this balance on is illegals. That issue is as time-urgent and as crucial to the future of our nation as is the WOT and the Supreme Court--in my opinion, all other issues pale in importance beside these three. And on immigration, W is just plain wrong.

But even at that point, the balance still says that joining Katie Couric in bashing W is counterproductive. W may be wrong on immigration. But the dems are decisively wrong on all three issues. And, if we don't like W's immigration bill, imagine what Harry Reid's will look like--he'll be sending buses to Juarez with welcome signs.

How do you distinguish the legitimately frustrated folks from the ones who are deliberate DNC infiltrators, which I am sure abound here? I don't know. I know that when the Miers controversy was in full swing, I started punching abuse on posters (on both sides) who got nasty. And the moderators slapped ME down. So they don't want to hear from us on that subject.

You are a sweet gentle person, it just shines through. You look at these sweet illegals as being just like you and for the most part they are.

I myself live next door to the sweetest illegals on the planet and they are great neighbors. I had rather have them for neighbors than anyone else I can think of, even some family members. They have fiestas, sometimes late into the nite, and while I find myself wondering if I am in Mexico, while the mariachi music plays, I have been invited to their parties and enjoyed myself.

These poor people purchased the house next door through HUD who never placed a sign anywhere saying the home was in foreclosure, there was no sign ever displayed that the home was abandoned or for sale. I just woke up one morning and there they were, my new illegal neighbors. The third such family on my block. They did not have social security numbers but they had filed for a tax number which was used instead of the SS number in the forms to purchase the house.

Now as a patriot, and a concerned descendant of the American Revolution it is on me to discern the dangerous intent of globalist to use these sweet people as a means to an end to achieve their goal of making these folks the majority in the land, as this group is given citizenship and voting rights, followed on their heels by the next wave and the next wave, whose will desire to see the end of the nation state in favor of it being merely a no borders Trade Zone. Which of course as the new majority they will think is a wonderful idea.

As a patriot, educated in the underhanded agenda of globalist elite to use these sweet people to fulfill their agenda to kill the nation state in favor of a borderless one world, one hemisphere at at time, trade zone. I have decided that I cannot allow the gentle naivete of my sweet neighbors to be a useful tool in the globalist agenda, no matter how sweet and unaware they are.

The father works as a foreman for a landscape company, or did at last check, he is paid under the table which allows him to do a lot of improvements to his place that I cannot afford to do to mine because of the taxes I pay, yet I don't resent his joy at such a windfall. They live quietly, keep to themselves except when they come over with their English speaking school age children to have a simple talk about gardening and how I am doing as a new widow. I am sincerely fond of them.

But these sweet people are being used for an agenda that they are completely unaware of. The agenda of globalist to wipe from the face of the earth my sovereign nation. To dissolved it's borders, Constitution, Bill of Rights, and culture, and turn it into a border less trade zone, destroying our Constitution, Bill of Rights, and sovereignty, in favor of International Law and it's definition of human rights placed above our second seat Constitution and Bill of Rights.

This is a concept far above my neighbors ability to grasp, given their limited education and unworldliness. So it comes down to my understanding of just what the globalist game plan is. That being to flood the nation with illegals some benign, many not so benign who harbor destructive and resentful agendas aimed at the removal of the USofA as a nation, in favor of being known as a border less trade zone.

Can I allow the sweetness of these people to be used to destroy all my ancestors fought and died for, no matter how sweet and unaware they themselves may be. No I cannot. I am placed in the sad position of having to do my best to stymie such a future for my nation. The villains here are the globalist who desire to kill my cultural identity and the institution set in place by our brilliant ancestors. It's a bad situation all the way around but one that must be faced head on and defeated, as my new neighbors are joined every day by millions of like useful tools, to be followed by millions upon millions of the same until the damage is done and the only choice left legitimate citizens to take it back at whatever cost. Globalist have declared war on us and all we hold dear. I have to ask myself just how dear many equally sweet, but unaware legitimate citizens are in being smart enough to hold it dear as they assume nothing can ever happen to the intuitions that guard their freedoms. So it falls to folks like myself to sound the warning. Not a comfortable position to be in, but a necessary one.

FOR THOSE WHO DON'T GO TO THE DOSE ON A REGULAR BASIS:

A Day in the Life of President Bush - (photos) - 4.11.06 ^

Posted by DrDeb to ohioWfan; snugs; MJY1288; mystery-ak; LUV W; ilovew; DollyCali; NordP; pollyannaish; onyx; ...
On News/Activism ^ 04/11/2006 7:23:03 PM PDT · 112 of 160 ^

Lot's of bogus polling data yesterday and today; the following is my take (as posted on another thread initially):

IT'S THE SAMPLE STUPID!

ABCNews/WashingtonPost
53% Democrat/Democrat-leaning Independents
42% Republican/Republican-leaning Independents
+11 Democrat . . . 'nuf said
[FYI: Even though this is one of the most skewed WP polls I've ever analyzed, they still only managed to reduce the President's JA rating by 1 point: from 38% to 37% . . . Of course, if an HONEST pollster were to re-weight the data, the President's JA rating would be in the mid-40s!]

AP/Ipsos-Reid, CBSNews/NYTimes and Gallup/USAToday also deliberately skew their samples to keep the President's JA rating below 40% . . . Bottomline: The MSM can skew the opinion polls for their preferred party/candidate but they can't win the only poll that counts -- the poll on election day!

IF YOU WANT TO VIEW THE RESULTS OF A MORE LEGITIMATE POLLSTER (who still oversamples Democrats, just not as absurdly as the MSM pollsters), visit the RASMUSSEN website:

Today, he puts the President's JA rating at 43% approve 55% disapprove [During the last 1 1/2 'controversial' weeks, the President's JA rating has remained steady at 42%-45%, i.e., there has been no decline in the President's ratings despite the 'immigration' hysteria and rising gas prices!]http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm

BTW: A President's job approval rating IS NOT a popularity rating.

A President's JA rating reflects the public's perception of the economy; a President's PERSONAL APPROVAL rating reflects the public's view of the man!

FYI: During Reagan and GHWB's era, Gallup, et al, always coupled their JA rating with a personal approval Rating ... Both Reagan and GHWB often scored very low on the former, but almost always scored quite high on the latter.

Conversely, Clinton only scored well with his JA rating (and only in his second term when the public thought the economy was doing well); however, he could never get his personal approval ratings above 40%. For this reason, the MSM pollsters dropped the personal approval rating and started promoting the JA rating as a 'popularity' rating -- anything to make Clinton look better!

Currently, The Battleground Poll is the only pollster still producing a personal approval rating for the President. According to Battleground, the President's PERSONAL APPROVAL RATING has never dipped below 60%!!!!

Bottomline: President George W Bush remains PERSONALLY POPULAR and he will continue to lead despite the MSM's unrelenting attempts to uncut his presidency with bogus opinion polls.

Now some of us are faced with the decision -- do we stay and fight for a site that we have devoted hours to in order to inform people who read this about the truth or do we go away like so many other good posters.

I'm staying and the bush bashers aren't winning any fans

They might as well change the name of Free Republic to 'Bash Bush' website which would better reflect some moronic postings I have been reading day after day and why I quit posting as much.

I agree. And it's one of the reasons I spend less time on FR as well.

I have been a member since 2000 and a conservative from the cradle.I don't understand the problem with loading up 11 million illegals and sending them packing when we have just struck a deal with China to send back 39,000 illegal Chinese in our country.

Deporting them doesn't have to happen in one day, but their future citizenship is a threat at the voters booth given the hair thin election wins we are experiencing now without their citizenship.

It has been proven that illegals vote illegally, their presence here runs in the billions in costs and will run into the stratusphere if they are made citizens.

If these are given amnesty, so will the next 20 million, and the next 20 million and the next 20 million, and so on until they are the majority and vote for the end of the nation state in favor of just being a trade zone. Is this what you want for your grandkids?