Why I Think Rumsfeld Must Go

Time. ^ | Posted Sunday, Apr. 09, 2006 | LIEUT. GENERAL GREG NEWBOLD (RET.)

[Leisler]

Posted Sunday, Apr. 09, 2006

Two senior military officers are known to have challenged Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on the planning of the Iraq war. Army General Eric Shinseki publicly dissented and found himself marginalized. Marine Lieut. General Greg Newbold, the Pentagon's top operations officer, voiced his objections internally and then retired, in part out of opposition to the war. Here, for the first time, Newbold goes public with a full-throated critique:

In 1971, the rock group The Who released the antiwar anthem Won't Get Fooled Again. To most in my generation, the song conveyed a sense of betrayal by the nation's leaders, who had led our country into a costly and unnecessary war in Vietnam. To those of us who were truly counterculture—who became career members of the military during those rough times—the song conveyed a very different message. To us, its lyrics evoked a feeling that we must never again stand by quietly while those ignorant of and casual about war lead us into another one and then mismanage the conduct of it. Never again, we thought, would our military's senior leaders remain silent as American troops were marched off to an ill-considered engagement. It's 35 years later, and the judgment is in: the Who had it wrong. We have been fooled again. From 2000 until October 2002, I was a Marine Corps lieutenant general and director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. After 9/11, I was a witness and therefore a party to the actions that led us to the invasion of Iraq—an unnecessary war. Inside the military family, I made no secret of my view that the zealots' rationale for war made no sense. And I think I was outspoken enough to make those senior to me uncomfortable. ...

[al_again]

Seems to me his criticisms are political and revisionist...same with Richard Clarke and the rest of the Clinton gang.

Richard Clarke and Zinni are two completely different animals. Clarke is not very credible and there is plenty of proof about his attempts to 'revise' history. I know of know similarities to Zinni.

The following is a very good article with good insight.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/21/60minutes/main618896.shtml

[John W]

Can anyone answer this?


"...going out of our way to alienate European countries who could have helped with the rebuilding..."

Since Newbold isn't here to flesh this out for me and you specifically noted this part of his assertions, maybe you can answer.
Since what really alienated Europe was our going into Iraq at all, how could we have not alienated them so they would be helping more now?

[in hoc signo vinces]

Well...considering the General's assertions are flat wrong...


Exactly, when did the President, and or people of importance in the Administration, deny that an insurgency was at the heart of the problems in Iraq?

It seems to me, the President has been sounding this all along but, those with opposing views tend to see only what their agenda wants them to see. Hence, major news media distorts the facts, history, etc. on a regular basis in regard to Iraq. The truth hurts their cause. As in this retired General.

I agree with you in part, at least the General is being critical with some measure of structure. Nevertheless, he's still wrong and appearently willing to be disinenguine about what is occurring in Iraq. And that lumps him in the same group as Wesley Clark.

[milemark]

Clinton sent the "Black Hawk Down" crew to their deaths

Didn't Bush 41 send U.S. military into Somalia about a month before he left office? Then the Black Hawk incident happened and Clinton pulled out. OBL cited it as an example of the USA being a "paper tiger" that would run from any tough fight.

[Democratshavenobrains]

Aren't we calling up 50 and 60 year olds who served in the National Guard at some time? Most generals can't be much older than that.

Anyway, my point was that I am getting tired of all these mostly Democratic Clinton-type officers like Wesley Clark bragging about their military prowess while simultaneously endorsing cut and run strategies or pointless one time only bombing raids.

[Yasotay]

Point taken

There can only be so many "Chiefs". Cut and Run can not be an option. Neither is failure. Downing is now the head of West Point's Combating Terrorism Center. It will be interesting to see his future positions.

[stylin19a]

2. They kicked out the UN weapons inspectors>

not quite true. Inspectors were ordered out by Butler ( not kicked out )with the reason as "a precautionary measure in case of U.S. military action".

[stylin19a]

2. They kicked out the UN weapons inspectors>

not quite true. Inspectors were ordered out by Butler ( not kicked out )with the reason as "a precautionary measure in case of U.S. military action".

[FlingWingFlyer]

In 2000, country singer Aaron Tippin released the anti dumbass Marine General anthem "Kiss This."

[HawaiianGecko]

Since what really alienated Europe was our going into Iraq at all.

That's really a political misnomer unless you don't consider Britain, Spain, Italy, Poland and a few other ex-Soviet bloc countries a part of Europe. To me they are the largest portion of Europe in both land mass and population. It's seems a more accurate statement would be: since what really alienated France and Germany was our going into Iraq at all.

That said, I don't recall anyone in the administration going out of their way to alienate France or Germany. Chirac had his own personal reasons all of which have become rather apparent since the war and Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder was bashing America for personal political gain that also became quite transparent.

Secretary Rumsfeld's comment of "Old Europe" was an expression indicating that Europe is now different with the addition of the ex-Soviet bloc countries at best and a slap in the face of Chirac and Schroeder at worst. Assuming the worst case scenario, the comment came after France's DeVillipan & Chirac stabbed Secretary Powell in the back and Schroeder was bashing America for votes.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- France's ambassador to the U.S. has insisted that weapons inspections in Iraq were working, and that Washington has no clear authority for waging war now. Monday March 17, 2003

That is in direct contradiction of UN resolution 1441 and France was one of a unanimous number of signatories to that document.

Former French interior minister Charles Pasqua has said he had been put under investigation for profiting from corruption in the UN's scandalized oil-for-food program for Iraq. Investigating Judge Philippe Courroye has also placed under investigation two former high-ranking French diplomats in the case. A UN report published last October showed that kickbacks and been paid for lucrative contracts linked to the program including over 170 French companies.

Did they have different motive for/against the war than America?

Daily Times Saturday, April 08, 2006 BERLIN: Germany’s parliament gave the green light on Friday for a parliamentary inquiry into whether German spies in Baghdad helped the US invasion of Iraq in 2003 at a time when the government was publicly opposed to the war.  ...German agents in Baghdad helped the United States launch its invasion, including by picking out bombing targets.

That alone should make one scratch his head about Germany's position on the war. Of course German agents may really NOT be under the control of the German government, but it's unlikely.

Now I don't know what this all means, but it surely doesn't appear that everything is as we think.

Going back and reading old news accounts in late 2002 and early 2003 gives me the clear impression that everyone gave permission to eliminate Hussein thinking it wouldn't happen. However, when it became clear that America was prepared to go immediately something happened to change these opinions drastically.

Is it radical to think that Hussein paid hundreds of millions of dollars to a handful of French firms with the understanding that they would take care of certain French officials after they leave office?  Remember we found close to 3 billion dollars in cash in several locations in Iraq.  Is it possible that Chirac et al thought what the hell, let's take the money and let the American military whack this guy anyway. Getting their cake and eating it too? I simply don't think this is a far fetched scenario. Occum's Razor says this is more likely the case than all the nuanced positions we read in the newspaper.

 

 

 

 

[Sprite518]

Uh oh the Left now have a new hero. A Clinton appointee is going trying to act as if the rest of the Generals feel this way too. However, they have to be intimidated. What a clown did he expect they would look like Japan in 3 years. What a jerk! Moreover, now the enemy has more propaganda. Thanks General Jack A$$ this will probably lead to more of our guys getting killed.

10 to 1 this guy voted for Kerry in 2004.

[Sprite518]

You know when the General uses the line, " Who released the antiwar anthem Won't Get Fooled Again". He has copied that from a leftist. I have seen that exact line a while back. I cannot recall where. Can someone do a nexus Lexis search. No one thinks he plagiarized this story a bit?

[LA Conservative]

They were blocked from entering sites that they wanted to inspect by armed soldiers. They were unable to execute the mission for which they were assigned. They were effectively kicked out.

[centurion316]

Mention the name Rumsfeld on this forum, and legions of the clueless will rise in full cry to his defense. I have yet to hear a Rumsfeld champion who understands what has really been going on in the building for the past five years.

I happen to believe that Rumsfeld made the correct strategic judgments, including the decision to attack Iraq. A successful war against terrorism must include not only its agents, Al Qaida and their ilk, but also the state supporters of these agents. Iraq was the logical intermediate objective. Attacking Iraq has neutralised Lybia and stymied Syria. Iran must be dealt with in due course, but Iraq has bought us some time.

Where I part company with Rumsfeld is in his operational judgements and decisions. He was so confident of a quick and decisive outcome in Iraq that he interupted the troop flow so that he use the result to bolster his case for a smaller, but more technologically capable force. He has botched most of the decisions subsequently. His arrogance makes it impossible for him to acknowledge these errors and to take corrective action. We are not being well served and I am at a loss to explain the continued confidence that he seems to enjoy with the President.

In the fullness of time, some H. R. McMaster will write the definitive account of Rumsfeld's tenure as Sec Def. He will not fare well.

[HawaiianGecko]

"I have yet to hear a Rumsfeld champion who understands what has really been going on in the building for the past five years."

I agree with this statement 100%. I have also yet to hear a Non-Rumsfeld champion who understands what has really been going on in the building for the past five years.

Apparently you know, so please tell. I freely admit I don't know what has been going on but would like to be enlightened.

 

 

[centurion316]

I have also yet to hear a Non-Rumsfeld champion who understands what has really been going on in the building for the past five years.

You might want to do a little reading, including the story that spawned this thread. Newbold, Zinni, Eaton, Downing to name but a few. Many others have remained silent because they are still serving and that is what they should do. If I had first hand knowledge, I would certainly report it. My information is largely second hand, but comes from people whom I know and respect. BTW, they are largely conservatives - this is not an argument about the ends, it revolves around the ways and means.

[j35jazz]

I think the article makes one excellent point that concerns me about the administration as a whole. I worked with Don for several years and have a very high regard for his integrity. He was often wrong. But he does not lie. His style, however, as he once bluntly put it at a meeting was to seek information and not guidance. That arrogance that Cheney also shares can be both effective and successful in business. But both are now also in the role of leadership in a political arena. Being right is critical (competence is a wonderal trait for our leaders!) But selling the decision is a critical element as well. I don't see them failing to sell it as much as I see them not bothering to try. I think we all deserve that additional effort as it would serve them well.

[John W]

You have hit it on the head.$$$$s.And, on any thread, whether it be about this, or oil or whatever-when someone mentions its really all about the benjamins, the bs slows to a crawl.

[Keith]

some good observations.

I would like to add that they continue to serve the President because they reflect both his view AND his philosophy. Take that for what it is...

Frankly, I also find it frustrating, but much more likely to be more kindly viewed by history...

I think all Bush cares about is doing what is his highest sense of right. I don't think he gives a damn about "selling" it properly. I am sure it drives everyone crazy, esp. his fellow Republicans.

It may serve him well in history...depending on who writes it...

[attiladhun2]

He says he would have been willing to fight a war in Afghanistan. The war in Afghanistan is still on, and he isn't there. He's jockeying for position in a second Clinton administration. They deserve each other.
Sounds like another Weasely Cluck. Without Iraq, all the world's jihadis would be heading to Afghanistan. This Dummy doesn't seem to see that. Iraq has taken a great deal of pressure off that nation such that it might have a chance a few years down the road to develope into something other than a haven for jihadist thugs and opium dealers. I guarantee that if there were half the terrorist incidents in Afghanistan as there is in Iraq today the doomsayers would be crying "quagmire." Oh, I forgot, they were already using the "q" word about three weeks into the Afghanistan campaign back in '01.