Wake up, Europe. It may already be too late.

MacLeans Magazine ^ | April 05, 2006 | Mark Steyn

[finnigan2]

've had a recurring experience in the last few months. I'll be reading some geopolitical tract like Sands Of Empire: Missionary Zeal, American Foreign Policy, and the Hazards Of Global Ambition by Robert W. Merry, and two-thirds of the way in I'll stumble across: "With the onset of the Iraq War and European opposition, many Americans embraced a severe anti-European attitude. 'To the list of polities destined to slip down the Eurinal of history,' wrote Mark Steyn in the Jewish World Review, 'we must add the European Union and France's Fifth Republic.' "

[headsonpikes]

Oh, I think they know who Mark is.

[alarm rider]

Fire held, but eyes open. See ya!

[Doe Eyes]

I wonder, second to the United States, which coalition country has the most troops on ground in Iraq?

[Grzegorz 246]

UK.

[plenipotentiary]

The beginning of the end has already begun.

It started when the immigrant Muslims were enough to start swinging seats in Parliamentary elections.

Many of our MP's don't represent their British constituents, they pander to the Muslims otherwise they lose their seat in Parliament.

There is an alliance between the socialists, who want to see the disintegration of democratic free western states, and the Muslims. Much as in the USA the Democrats pander to the Muslims.

I'm afraid the only solution is to send them all home, but whether it will reach that point, I don't know, and I doubt the politicians have the stomach for it.

[claudiustg]

---But for the time being, they're idiots.---

They are nuts.

[usurper]

The only thing I'd disagree with you is: Alberta is a blue province (blue for Conservatives, red for Liberals, orange for NDP [socialists])

Yes down here the MSM always shows conservative states as red and liberal ones as blue. Its one of their favorite cosmic jokes.

[globalheater]

It looks more like another 'europe-is-doomed and goes merrily merrily merrily down the river' song. A quite famous old broken record to spin in these boards... sad and boring.

I understand the outrage of France not going to war in Iraq and Germany not ging to war in public (seems like the secret service was involved big time) - but I even feel the people in this board are one step further in their view on europe and the ongoing world wide aging wave in western and eastern civilisations.

Certainly demography is rotten here (in Europe and especially in Germany). But it is the same in the US - in 25 years of time the mother language of the most US citizens will be spanish. If - and that's a big if - we let that happen.

The ongoing discussion about immigration in the US and the ongoing debate about integration in Germany (I really don't know what these arrogant bastards in france are doing- but france is only the agricultural leader in europe - we will tka elatvia instead) show that there is at least the demand for a solution. We faced bigger challenges. As long as we can keep peace in Europe and America we will come over this stuff.

Now excuse myself, I am German and I have to make babies and integrate some muslims now.

[globalheater]

Ahhhm yes - now look on the options not on the obstacles.

[globalheater]

This is not a Tom Clancy reality - although he might seem like Nostredamus to most people.

[finnigan2]

"Certainly demography is rotten here (in Europe and especially in Germany). But it is the same in the US - in 25 years of time the mother language of the most US citizens will be Spanish."

- While I am not American, I vacation there annually and the increase in the Latino presence, especially in the south, has been remarkable. Latinos now make up about 5% of the American population. However, one thing should be kept in mind. America is a land of immigrants and has a long history of tolerance and more especially has a built up series of legislations, social conventions and public tolerance to deal with new arrivals. I don't think many European countries are equipped, either emotionally or socially, to handle new immigrants in the volumes that they have been experiencing in recent years. They tend to give them menial jobs, consign them to ghettos' and then try to forget that they are there. In France especially, the situation is festering.
Demographically, many European countries are going from Eutopia to Eurabia as birth rates fall. In the US the birth rate is slightly over 2.0 children per couple, while in many European countries it has fallen to 1.5 or lower (that is below the replacement rate which is somewhere around 1.6)
A very interesting, if long, discussion of this whole topic with emphasis on the European experience was written by Steyn some months ago and may be found at:
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1550710/posts#comment?q=1

As a European yourself you may want to wade through it because I don't know if the press in Europe is keeping the public really aware of the long term impact of what is happening to them.

[globalheater]

... neither do I think that your awareness is at 100%.

Sorry but this is an old story - you rather see the grain in your neighbours eye then the B52 in your own.

But that's partially why I am here - to see my world from another angle.

In this special case I'd like to say - well if we don't have the history of making immigrants happy germans - then we better build it. Why exactly should we fail ? Why should muslims be - by definition - our doom ? Is it really a physical law ? I think that's BS.

We just have to get our heads out of you know where they are stuck up. There is examples in nearer history where europeans have proven to be astonishinly adaptive and flexible - not the french certainly - but we can digest one agricultural nation down - they'll come up again after they bumped their head on the wall.

[finnigan2]

"...they'll come up again after they bumped their head on the wall."

- I hope that you are right.
However, as someone who spent two years living in Westphalia, I was astonished that the Germans, of all people, would put up with what is happening in Europe.
Unfortunately, as Steyn points out, Europeans (including Germans) are wedded to their socialist benefits that makes it virtually impossible for any government to give up the lavish programs (extended maternity leave, long vacations, short work weeks, job security, early retirements, free services, virtually unlimited welfare benefits, etc.) that their citizens have become accustomed to.
These services have been bought with cuts to defense that they now rely on the US to provide, while complaining all the time on Americans foreign policy that is trying to protect them (free of charge) from the Islamofascists at their door.
You have no idea the contempt with which most US citizens now hold for Europe in general, for their selfish and hypocritical attitude.
Europe has bought it's complacent lifestyle by mortgaging it's future to Islamic immigrants who will not integrate and who breed like rabbits.
Without radical change, in 40 years time the population of Europe will be half Muslim while the original population will have emigrated or it will consist of mostly elderly original Europeans living under some form of Sharia law.

[globalheater]

I generally agree with the listing of threats on european society, economy and security.

But I can assure you that the time has not come yet where german politicos are putting up with what is said comming our direction.

We have already become more flexible, more privatized and less subsidized as a tribute for more freedom in Europes internal market aswell as the foreign market. We have understood that we got to look who's paying our bills if we get old.

People in the US always tend to look on the status quo rather then on the dynamics. The reunification of germany is only 15 years down the river and that meant a merger with a throughout socialistic ex soviet satellite state. We didn't come from manchester capitalism.

Change is never easy if it is applied to whole societies and it doesn't get easier if it's not a change to become richer and get more care and cushions. So I reckon we can be proud on what we already achieved.

Plus it was never free of charge for Europe to have the US involved in a war - as in the second Gulf War (following the iraqi occupation of kuwait) two thirds of the war-costs (61 billion$) where paid by kuwait, japan, germany and saudi arabia -while france and britain where directly involved.

Europe is contributing to the 'WOT' in many ways - as for example it's germany rebuilding a police organisation in afghanistan.

Add to that, that there is still contracts, resolutions and agreements met after WWII denieing military capacity to germany - as for example aircraft carriers.

In the end everything breaks down to demographic figures - will we manage to turn them around and will we be sucessful Integrators ?

[finnigan2]

"In the end everything breaks down to demographic figures - will we manage to turn them around and will we be sucessful Integrators ?"

- I agree, but are the German electorate concerned enough about the declining birthrate issue to demand that some measures be taken to reverse the trend?

[globalheater]

no - but awaking slowly.

[Jimnorwellwarren]

"All the best European males were killed off in WW2"

In general, there may be something to this. Wars tend to kill off the Bob Doles of the world and leave us with Bill Clintons.