Posted on 04/04/2006 9:58:28 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
My husband jokes that I should have been an electrician. In this age of outsourcing and job insecurity, the trades seem to us to be the best professions of the future. To be sure, most aren't glamorous and are often physically demanding. But a number seem to have financial security and stability, and their job portability doesn't hurt, either. Many of us white-collar employees don't get to choose where we will live; we must go wherever our employer requires us. Many folks in the trades can command a good income, choose their own hours, and put down roots in a community and stay as long as they choose. I wish I had this luxury.
Both my husband and I are Ph.D. chemists. I'd once wanted to be an opera singer. I come from a long line of writers and musicians, but I had the (mis)fortune of being good at science. In college, the thinking was that the sciences (and an advanced degree) would guarantee me some sense of employment security. Pursuing opera would subject me to the unemployment line, I thought, at least until my career took off. I could sing on the side, but by making medicines that make people well, I could make a meaningful difference in the world.
I could never have predicted the difficulties that I'd face. I followed my husband from Virginia (where we went to graduate school) to Maine, where my husband found a job, and then to Oregon, where we live now. In Maine, I was out of work for almost a year. I went to four temp agencies before I found one that would place me. I was turned away from administrative-level positions because I didn't have "admin experience." I worked retail and part-time jobs. Eventually, I learned to leave my Ph.D. off my resume, which helped me land my first serious job. It didn't pay well, but at least it was serious.
When we moved to Oregon, where my husband had accepted another job, and I found myself interviewing again. I worked for a biotech company, handling their patents and licenses, but this company didn't care about my expensive chemistry degree. I now work at an advertising agency where I (Shhh!) barely earn above minimum wage. The agency ran an ad for the assistant position I now hold and received 60 applications the next day.
It just doesn't seem right. I was valedictorian of my high-school class of 600, summa cum laude from my university, and graduated with distinction from graduate school. And none of this seems to have made the least bit of difference in helping me to build a career. At age 30, I feel grateful to have a job at all, because there are few in my part of Oregon.
My situation is hardly unique. My husband and I know plenty of people with advanced degrees (Ph.D., MS, J.D., and MBA) who have had this problem. In many cases, it's the "two-body problem," where both spouses hold advanced degrees. For some, it's because they choose to live in smaller cities, where opportunity is limited. But often it seems as if the job market isn't able to absorb all the advanced-degree holders at the pace colleges and universities are churning them out. Where are all these people going to work?
I am planning to go back to school this fall. Another doctorate. I have decided to make use of my Ph.D. in medicinal chemistry and become a pharmacist. I still dream of being able to make my own destiny, to carve my own path. A person of some intelligence who worked hard and had the right attitude used to be able to do that. Right now, my Ph.D. and $3.65 gets me a Cinnamon Dolce Latte at Starbucks, and not much more.
My dad often used to say, "Life does not reward us for efforts expended." I have learned the hard way that there are no guarantees in life, and that you can have all the determination in the world, and sometimes the opportunities just aren't there.
In this new world order, where jobs of every stripe are outsourced, and job security or opportunity can be a scarce commodity, one could do a lot worse than to be a electrician.
Lenovo purchased IBM's PC business.
Chemistry hasn't been a desired degree for as long as I can remember. Not even in the seventies, unless there is a guaranteed job in R&D Better to be a pharmacist or chemical engineer. A chemical engineering degree offers the most flexibility especially if you do a little extra work in electrical courses. Its like having 3-4 degrees.
If you're writing specifications for a solitaire game, that may be one thing; if you're writing advanced algorithms for chemical assays, that may be something else.
Einstein could not have just handed off the idea of general relativity to an Indian firm and said, "create some software to simulate these theories." He'd have to write the specifications himself.
"I had a guy in my reserve unit who was a vocational school machinist in Virginia back in the 90's. He told me that they were closing vo-tech machine shops and that the "educators" were sending him all the druggies and other assorted criminals since they obviously weren't college material."
We've seen the same thing here in our local and regional public schools. They are closing woodworking shops because the administrators fear a kid slicing off a finger or hand and the school being sued. I plan on attending these public auctions to get some woodworking machines for my private Christian boys school shop.
"He had a real problem with the ed-specs for being completely unable to see the value of craft and trade. I'm wondering if we need ed-specs."
We don't need ed-specs that have graduated from a college of education.
It's up to the local business men and others to do their own public outreach. Otherwise the ed-specs will try and promote their own miserable college educated species.
Depends on the field... I know that is true for electrical or mechanical engineering, but not neurosciences with emphasis on moloecular biology... likewise you may not be aware of the ever increasing peroiod of the "post-doc"... the time from graduation with PhD to being offered a professorship at the entry level... when I researched grad school it was 4 years in neurosciences, when I graduated it was approaching 9, now it is over ten years... his is currently assistant to the Primary Investigator in a prolific lab at a very famous Ivy-League school. I abandoned the field my degree was in for greener pastures, and agree with the notion expressed elsewhere that the goal of any specialty should be to understand the business and lead to entrepeneurship...
"I abandoned the field my degree was in for greener pastures, and agree with the notion expressed elsewhere that the goal of any specialty should be to understand the business and lead to entrepeneurship."
This is why my private Christian boys school will emphasize economics and commerce along with science and technology.
Folks always need either a new home or a remodel job on the one they already have! Trade skills are good to have even if you also have a PhD!
"Einstein could not have just handed off the idea of general relativity to an Indian firm and said, "create some software to simulate these theories." He'd have to write the specifications himself."
And what makes you think if he was alive he would not do just that? Bad analogy.
Sure you do.
Then you tell him to pick a new career path as soon as a flood of illegal alien plumbers moves in...
Yeah well Id want a degree in something I love not what is considered the Hot Job Markets of the future because by the time you get there it might be gone.
Mostly this is because college and advanced degrees are often worthless---literally.
I agree that a really intelligent person who has a good business sense can do REALLY well starting his own business in the trades. This is why so few young men are going to college these days---the education stinks and, by starting work out of high school, they can pick up a degree along the way while they're years ahead of the game.
They'd certainly have the smarts to learn the trade. The difficulty is in the actual training time involved to get a license in the trade. Don't know about other trades, but, for example, in MA, in order to get an electrician's license, you have to have worked FULL TIME as a journeyman for four years. Now, if you have NO other job, that might be fine, but what about folks who might like to learn the trade, but still have a decent paying full time job that they don't want to just give up? Seems like you should be able to do the studying on your own and 'test out' of some of that 4 yr. time.
I sometimes wonder if all that journeyman work time requirement is not just a union job protection racket.
and the free traders come on and say "oh, just retrain". sure, retrain a tech PhD to be a roofer or a plumber.
Employment is a market, like any other. There is supply and demand. When there's an oversupply, there isn't much money to be had. It's not some evil conspiracy, but the basic laws of economics at work.
Yes, that means that a successful career is a moving target. The best strategy seems to be a diverse education coupled with the desire and ability to learn new things.
So, in answer to your sarcasm about retraining, the answer is yes, that's what you must do. Just as the market for Beanie Babies came and went, the market for some professions comes and goes. That's just the cold hard facts of the market.
Please add me to your 'oceanview is crazy' ping list.
Regarding the article, a woman follows her husband around the country job after job and she can't keep employed in her highly specialized field? Thats normal, not a sign of any kind of problem with the labor market. The woman even knows the solution. If you are going to follow someone around when they change jobs then you should pick a career accordingly.
LOL....My impression of the writer is that she'll insist that her SAT scores be mentioned in her obituary....
oversupply? industry is screaming that there is a SHORTAGE, which is why they justify and lobby for H1B visa increases.
so let's agree then - that industry is lying, there is no shortage.
Free advice?
Have a Plan B for when you are 45+. It is very difficult to find engineering jobs when you're old and used up...
indeed, that's the next phase of this.
we chase americans into service jobs, jobs that require a physical presence - then government comes into that labor market and skews it with a guest worker program.
and on and on it goes. that's why every young person I talk to, wants to be a public school teacher or a lawyer.
so let's agree then - that industry is lying, there is no shortage.
Huh??? Good heavens, man! Look at the posts. Or, maybe look at the article. This woman was a PhD chemist. I'd say there's probably an oversupply of PhD chemists.
Why does every flippin' article posted to FR have to be about illegal immigration or outsourcing? This one isn't
Please, go vent on another thread.
No shortage of medicinal chemistry Ph.D.s in Corvallis, Oregon, according to Dr. Elva Angelique Van Devender. If anyone wants a good laugh, go to MapQuest and check-out where Corvallis actually is.
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