Posted on 04/02/2006 5:08:09 AM PDT by GeorgiaDawg32
WASHINGTON - A slim majority of Americans are open to allowing undocumented workers to obtain some sort of temporary legal status to remain in the United States, with stronger support for the idea among Democrats, younger adults and more educated Americans, a new poll finds.
Overall, 56 percent of Americans favor offering illegal immigrants a shot at some kind of legal status; roughly two-thirds of those ages 18-34 like the idea and an equal share of those with a college education agree, the AP-Ipsos survey found.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
I want them to go home, too, and re-enter only when they have legal permission to do so.
BUT . . . HOW?
As a realist, I don't know how on earth this can be accomplished. Suppose we seal the borders, tight, so that continued entry is not an issue. Even then, I see no workable way to round up the illegals who are here, other than offering minimal amnesty as a "carrot" to get them to come forward.
The everyday hard-working Mexican will do that. (I'm in Texas, and yes, most are plain old poor folks. I know some of them.) The bad guys will remain in the shadows.
I think this may be what the powers in Washington have come to realize. If we want the problem fixed, the answer is probably not going to be ideal.
But we have to do something, even if it means compromise and imperfection, because what we have now is just plain rotten.
Two other words - Bush Sh!t.
The desire of the overwhelming majority of American citizens to have our borders controlled and to prevent businesses from hiring illegal aliens has been autocratically overruled by our elected officials for decades despite the fact that they have passed laws that make these activities illegal. They (Congress) have played a game with every President in which they passed laws against illegal immigration (to give themselves cover with the electorate) but then they don't demand that the President enforce them. Since both parties are agreed on not giving the American people what they so desperately want on this issue, no elected official has had to pay a price for this and even if "the people" were to kick one out of office, his replacement would be equally pro-illegal. They really do not care what "we the people" want on this issue and they do not care that they are driving a stake into the central accomplishment of the American revolution -- self-government. They, and their internationally minded financial masters, have succeeded in effecting a coup from above to overturn the results of American revolution and impose arbitrary rule by an oligarchic elite. The question is whether "we the people" will let this stand or whether we will take up Benjamin Franklin's challenge to us to preserve our republic and our right to self-government.
George Bush took an oath of office to faithfully execute the laws of the land. He is the chief EXECUTIVE. It is his constitutional duty to enforce the laws and he has no right to pick and choose those laws he wants to enforce and to ignore those he doesn't personally like. This is what our self-governing system is all about. It is the people's will as expressed through our representatives in legislation that is supposed to decide these matters.
By his ongoing failure to enforce the democratically enacted laws against illegal immigration and his constant attempt to force amnesty programs on an unwilling citizenry President Bush has shown his contempt both for democratic self-governance and the American people. His arrogant refusal to perform his constitutional duty should be met with the one remedy provided by the Constitution to protect the people against the usurpation of their legislative authority -- impeachment. It is now well past time for Congress to assert the rights of the American people to self-government.
You're exactly correct. Unfortunately, the autocratic refusal to obey the law on the part of the "governing class" is not correctable by our votes and impeachment only gives the ball to others who will do the very same thing. Americans have bought into the nonsense that "violence never solved anything", when, in fact, violence has solved most of the serious problems in the world's history, so we're going down. It's over.
Yet MSM another attempt to create support for their position through rigged polls. Tell the majority that their position is not what they thought it was. They pull the same BS on issues like gay marriage. Hasn't worked there--won't work here. I have a direct dial to my congressman and senators.
Let everybody in that "slim majority" take into their home just ONE illegal and his family.
This poll is disinformation and propaganda. The rats who want amnesty and cheap workers are trying to hose us.
Alert to all FReepers! You know the soft on immigration / borders bill the Senate is trying to ram down our throats is a bad bill.
Now is the time to tell your Senators and House members we won't let a bill that weakens borders and rewards law breakers with amnesty stand. Write, call and email them. Tell them you won't contribute to the party and will remember their back stabbing at voting time.
Protecting our citizenship and legal immigration is as important as continuing the war on terror. A loss either way is a threat to the Republic.
What has happened to you cripplecreek?
You have given yourself to the DARKSIDE.
God forbid a nuclear tragedy ever happened in this country. You'd be the 1st one sneaking into Mexico...renting beach unbrellas or something. ;^)
How are the proponents going to enforce the rules if the illegals don't want to come in "from the shadows?" Why would anyone register as an illegal thereby providing the government with their whereabouts, requiring them to pay a fine and taxes, and getting to the back of the line for citizenship? Where's the carrot? Where's the stick?
I don't believe that for a second. What would you do? Do you really believe that the illegals who went through the considerable effort and expense of entering the US would trust our government and disclose their whereabouts to US authorities. In addition, they would have to pay a fine, undergo a background check, be subject to taxes, and have no assurance that the rules could be changed again. There is no real incentive for them to reveal themselves. What are we going to do with the millions who don't comply?
But we have to do something, even if it means compromise and imperfection, because what we have now is just plain rotten.
We tried to do something in 1986. All it does is increase the flood of illegals by rewarding law breakers. If doing something means legalizing illegal activities, then we have solved nothing and the problem continues to escalate.
In the meantime, the illegal population of the US is increasing exponentially. Based on the official census figures, Mexicans comprised the biggest foreign born nationality in 30 states in 2000 compared to 18 in 1990. In North Carolina, the number of Mexican born residents increased from 8,751 in 1990 to 179,236 in 2000. We are witnessing an invasion and our leaders lack the political will to do anything about it. Politics trumps national security and survival.
Calm Down.
The number 1 item in the President's proposal is Border Security. Almost all of the rest of BOTH the House and Senate bills can be tossed out because Border Security will take care of EVEN THOSE ALREADY HERE.
You see, many of those will self deport. They will have a parent die and attend the funeral. They will long to visit family and will go do so. Once they do, they can't get back in.
Frankly, the President's plan would be fine. It's all a matter of emphasis. Border Security is listed 1st, but it should also be talked about more than anything else. A strict guest worker plan will not encourage more influx if border security is good. I think most would accept some sort of guest worker plan, but let's arrange it to be on a schedule and that schedule would be . . . perhaps starting 3-4 years after Border Security has reduced the influx by 90% or some statistic like that.
Note that if the influx stops, the guest worker plan will have fewer and fewer participants as they endure their strict criminal punishment, pay their debt to society as former lawbreakers and become citizens.
Response: It is said that collectively and over the long term the people are wise. Perhaps the poll reflects that wisdom. Maybe it is better to accept Mexican gouvernance and all that it entails than to undergo the horrors of a Social War.
Just another reckless amnesty.
Not if they legalize their status. They can come and go without fear of not being allowed back in. In any event, it hasn't stopped them until now.
Frankly, the President's plan would be fine. It's all a matter of emphasis. Border Security is listed 1st, but it should also be talked about more than anything else.
Easier said than done. The MSM and Dems have demagoged the wall idea. Any real crackdown on security along the 700 miles of border will bring all kinds of political protest. We don't have the stomach or political will to seal off the border. We catch now over a million a year trying to enter the country. We estimate that another 500,000 enter illegally each year. I bet the number is higher than that.
A strict guest worker plan will not encourage more influx if border security is good.
And how do you enforce it, if the "guest workers" decide to overstay their welcome and disappear into East LA or elsewhere? Deport them? LOL. I don't know what you mean by strict when we don't even pursue the folks who are already here.
I think most would accept some sort of guest worker plan, but let's arrange it to be on a schedule and that schedule would be . . . perhaps starting 3-4 years after Border Security has reduced the influx by 90% or some statistic like that.
You place too much stock in our will to control our borders and invest the resources needed to do it. In any event, half the camel is already under the tent. The number of children (aka anchor babies) born to illegals will ensure their stay here without legalization thru this program.
Note that if the influx stops, the guest worker plan will have fewer and fewer participants as they endure their strict criminal punishment, pay their debt to society as former lawbreakers and become citizens.
Why should they participate in such a program? If I were one of them, I would not disclose my whereabouts, pay a fine and taxes, undergo a background check, and wait for 6 to 11 years to gain citizenship. OTOH, if I were in Mexico now and saw the program as a way to jump the line, I would get into the US as quickly as possible before the borders are secured, if indeed that were to happen.
I think the gist of your post is that it is possible to work in the underground economy of the US and not pay taxes -- whether or not you are an illegal immigrant.
So . . . there's no reason to focus the comments on immigrant threads. Talk about them everywhere -- especially over at DU.
Where did you divine that? Regardless, there is in fact a huge underground economy in the US, much of it fueled by illegal immigrants as well as by drugs, crime, etc. I see it everyday here in Virginia. There are even government supported centers where the illegals hang out waiting each morning for employers to drive by, pick them up, and use them on jobs. You can bet that SS contributions and income taxes are not being paid. The emergency rooms are filled primarily by illegal immigrants who use them for routine health care because they lack health insurance.
So . . . there's no reason to focus the comments on immigrant threads. Talk about them everywhere -- especially over at DU.
When you can't respond to my observations and questions with reasoned responses, you resort to ad hominen attacks and non-sequitors. We have a huge and growing problem with immigration. The solutions proposed by Bush and the Senate have been tried before and found wanting. The politicians are not serious about real immigration reform. They are offering hollow, unenforceable solutions. Only the gullible and uninformed believe these spineless "leaders."
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