Immigration is not the pox neo-Know Nothings make it out to be

The Jewish World Review ^ | 4/31/2006 | Tony Snow

[jpsb]

And that is the meat of the matter, the open borders people do not see the usa as a nation with it own history, language, culture, they see North American as an economic zone and want easy access to the "cheap" labor south of our border. They do not care one bit about anything other then short term profits. Guess they figure that by the time the you know what hits the fan they will be safe behind there gates or in some far off hide away. You and me on the other hand will be in deep do do.

[Prince Charles]

Here's a few more statistics Tony somehow managed not to include in his article:

http://euphoria.jarkolicious.com/journal/2006/03/25/2015/

* There were about ten million illegal aliens living in the US in 2005.
* In 2003 there were 55,322 illegal aliens incarcerated in federal/state prisons and local jails.
* These illegal aliens combined for 459,614 arrests on 691,890 offenses
* On the average each illegal was arrested at least 8 times
* About 24% of these offenses (166,054) were drug crimes.
* About 15% of these offenses (103,784) were property crimes such as burglary, larceny, auto theft and property damage.
* About 12% of these offenses (83,027) were violent crimes such as murder, rape, robbery and assault.
* 80% of all arrests (367,691) occurred in three states - California (58%), Texas (14%) and Arizona (8%).

[george wythe]

Thank you for proving my point. Unions are full of corrupt, thuggish leaders, willing to sell their members to Mammon

[inquest]

Again, no facts whatsoever to back up your arguments, just a bunch of superheated pap. According to Rich Lowry (writing in 2003): "No wonder people voted for Proposition 187, including 31 percent of Hispanics. The GOP wasn't hurt by it. Republicans were getting about 30 percent of the Hispanic vote before Proposition 187, and have been getting about 30 percent since. Their basic political problem with Hispanics is that they are poor, and poor people vote for Democrats."

Now, where are your facts that contradict him on this?

[kesg]

I don't see that illegal immigration or Prop 187 has caused the GOP to "lose control" of California -- its legislature has been controlled by the D's for decades, and it's been a liberal mess for at least as long.

Funny. In Texas, the Rats controlled the Legislature for generations -- until recently. The GOP has its act together here. What is your excuse in California? But I was referring to the fact that GOP Presidential candidates used to be able to take California for granted. Now they can take it as a given that they will lose in California. And the main reason is the seismic political shift that occurred there in the last 14 years.

If you want to see how the GOP wins in big states, look to Texas and Florida, not California. Watch and learn. It's all about how you treat the Hispanic vote. Culturally, they are natural conservatives, but you have to know how to transform that into political gains. You can do it either the Texas way or the California way. But the results of both approaches speak for themselves.

[r9etb]

So if we call you, and others like you, apologist assholes the term is in context and you won't object?

Ah, but the beauty of it is, Snow has historical context on his side, and all you've got is a potty mouth and no flair for words.

I won't even object -- though I will shake my head in sympathy for your lack of mental self-control.

[r9etb]

When was the last time a Mexican attacked America?

1916 -- Poncho Villa.

[inquest]

[I would also like to say, illegals who are paying Federal, State and FICA must be using false documents or committing identity theft, both serious crimes that need to be addressed.]

My post, with a supporting IRS link, exposes this assertion as conjecture.

Ah. I missed that part of the post, and was focusing on another part. My bad.

[Tokra]

Yeah, you know how many illegal immigrants come here to open small businesses.

You might be surprised. Here in Detroit I see more and more business vans - most of them in construction or landscaping related business with Hispanic names. There are a lot of immigrants opening businesses in this area.

Of course, now the black community is starting to raise a fuss, claiming that the "Mexicans are taking all our business" - just like the same complaint against the Chaldeans and the Koreans.

As I tell people all the time, anyone can work hard and open their own business. All it takes is desire and hard work.

[investigateworld]

AMEN !

Did ya know Unions are Dubya's biggest supporters in this Amnesty issue? But the Rev. Jackson is right behind them.

[MissouriConservative]

"A report that found that illegal immigrants in the United States cost the federal government more than $10 billion a year -- a sum it estimated would almost triple if they were given amnesty -- has drawn criticism from immigration advocacy groups."

**snip**

"The report estimates that granting legal status to illegal immigrants would dramatically increase their cost, causing the net fiscal deficit to rise to nearly $29 billion because, the author argues, unskilled immigrants would have access to more government services while continuing to make modest tax payments."

LINK

Not to mention that one word that most people ignore...."illegal". No matter what people say about them, whether it's they work hard, or pay taxes, or save someone's life.....they are still illegally in this country and are criminals. There is no escaping that fact.

[ErieGeno]

Princeton University sociologist Douglas S. Massey reports that 62 percent of illegal immigrants pay income taxes (via withholding) and 66 percent contribute to Social Security.

Uh, professor? What tax ID number and what SS# does an illegal use to pay his taxes? Since an illegal alien doesn't have a legal tax ID or SS#, does he send his anonymous payments directly to the IRS????

[mlc9852]

Before my time. Yet I certainly remember 9/11!

[r9etb]

The fundamental flaw in illegals/immigrants "saving" Social Security argument is that these idiots forget that it is a proven medical fact that even immigrants do get old! Then we have to fork out a far greater number of SS checks than we would have had to do otherwise.

And whose fault is it that "we" fork out those SS checks?

To borrow a phrase: "H - e - l - l - o - o - o...."

[inquest]

When was the last time a Mexican attacked America? I worry much more about letting Muslims into our country but none of our great leaders seem to think that's a problem.

Indeed they don't, and the lack of border security is one big manifestation of that.

[r9etb]

And that is the meat of the matter, the open borders people do not see the usa as a nation with it own history, language, culture....

It's this argument that makes Snow's use of the term "Know-nothing" appropriate in context. It's the same concern expressed by the original "Know-nothings."

[jpsb]

"So you've counted 20-25 million illegals with your own "lying eyes?"

Yes, I've counted those I see in my little town and then nultiplied. I figure my method is as good as any government stats. Also I remember 86 where government stats said 1 million would recieve amnesty and 3 to 4 million did, so I think something similar will happen again, gov says 11 million you can bet the real numbers is two to three times bigger.

[Just another Joe]

OK, Louis, I have a couple of questions.

While the population includes an eye-popping number of crooks, drug-dealers and would-be welfare sponges, it also provides a helpful prop for sustaining American economic growth and cultural dynamism.

Even the article admits that there are many of the illegal immigrants are undesirable. Can we sort out the desirables from the undesirables BEFORE we grant any guest worker documents or citizenship?

Princeton University sociologist Douglas S. Massey reports that 62 percent of illegal immigrants pay income taxes (via withholding) and 66 percent contribute to Social Security. Forbes magazine notes that Mexican illegals aren't clogging up the social-services system: only 5 percent receive food stamps or unemployment assistance; 10 percent send kids to public schools.

If we can't even get a handle on how many illegal immigrants we have in the US, how does Mr. Massey estimate how many pay income taxes and how many contribute to SS? It seems to me he's pulling these numbers out of thin air.
Only 5% receive food stamps? Is this because many are afraid to register for food stamps because of La Migre?
And only 10% send their children to public schools? Where do the other 90% go? Private schools? With the wages we're told illegal immigrants make? I don't think so. They don't go to school at all? Then what DO they do?

Rather than panicking, the political class might want to take a deep breath and attempt a little common sense. Virtually everyone agrees that we need to secure our borders, deport lawbreakers and slackers among the illegal-immigrant population, and revitalize the notion of citizenship by insisting that prospective citizens master the English language and the fundaments of American history and culture.

I agree with this statement, BUT - if they already have jobs that their employer is sold enough on them to guarantee them, let them go back to their country of origin first and apply for that job.
That way we know that they have a job waiting, that the employer is impressed enough with their job performance to guarantee they will have that job, anyone without the guest worker papers gets deported.
Don't tell me that they can't do this. We hear the stories all the time of illegal immigrants going back to the country of their origins for the holidays and then sneaking back into the USA.

If we need the workers that bad, and they need the jobs that bad, fine. Let them apply for the jobs BEFORE they get in.

[Skylab]

Immigration is not the pox neo-Know Nothings make it out to be.

The Know-Nothing Platform

(1.) Repeal of all Naturalization Laws.
(2.) None but native Americans for office.
(3.) A pure American Common School system.
(4.) War to the hilt on political Romanism.
(5.) Opposition to the formation of Military Companies, composed of foreigners.
(6.) The advocacy of a sound, healthy and safe Nationality.
(7.) Hostility to all Papal influences, when brought to bear against the Republic.
(8.) American Institutions & American Sentiments.
(9.) More stringent & effective Emigration Laws.>
(10.) The amplest protection to Protestant Interests.
(11.) The doctrines of the revered Washington.
(12.) The sending back of all foreign paupers.
(13.) Formation of societies to protect American interests.
(14.) Eternal enmity to all who attempt to carry out the principles of a foreign Church or State.
(15.) Our Country, our whole Country, and nothing but our Country.
(16.) Finally - American Laws and Amen.

[lemura]

Weirdly enough, much of the anecdotal evidence tends to support these statistics. As a life-long California native, I've seen a lot of change over the last 40 years.

Interestingly, the barrio areas of Santa Ana/Costa Mesa have become much nicer over the last 5-7 years. Much of the change for the better is due to (a) overall wage growth, and (b) movement away from really low-skill jobs into the construction trades.

With more money comes less drain on social services. Of course, this is all relative. Back in the mid-90s, you could really get a sense of how the system was literally breaking under the weight. Now, things are starting to come around some what.

However, putting aside economics for a moment, there are a couple of other issues at hand, primarily the idea of Law & Order and the Sovereignty of States in determining who should cross our Borders.

I'm all for immigration - it's what built this country and keeps new blood coming in. But WE should be able to determine who WE want, who will become citizens, what are their responsibilities and to whom do they owe their allegiance.

Last week's protest marches negate any positive-neutral economic value-add illegals may be contributing. Much more important are the long-term cultural effects our children's children are going to have to face.