Immigration is not the pox neo-Know Nothings make it out to be

The Jewish World Review ^ | 4/31/2006 | Tony Snow

[Luis Gonzalez]

Princeton University sociologist Douglas S. Massey reports that 62 percent of illegal immigrants pay income taxes (via withholding) and 66 percent contribute to Social Security. Forbes magazine notes that Mexican illegals aren't clogging up the social-services system: only 5 percent receive food stamps or unemployment assistance; 10 percent send kids to public schools.

~~~~snip~~~~

Economist Larry Kudlow praises Hispanic entrepreneurship: "According to 2002 Census Bureau data, Hispanics are opening businesses at a rate three times faster than the national average. In addition, there were almost 1.6 million Hispanic-owned businesses generating $222 billion in revenue in 2002."

~~~~snip~~~~

Total crime and property crime in California are half what they were in 1980; violent crime has fallen more than a third. The state's Hispanic population during that time has increased 120 percent.

[calex59]

Facts? Where is the proof these are facts? This is someones opinion without real facts to back it up. This is no different then a liberal spouting off about gun control or some other liberal idea. Opinions disguised as facts.

Fact:Hospitals in Southern Ca are closing or have closed because the influx of ILLEGALS have overloaded the system. Fact:The majority of ILLEGALS do NOT pay income taxes. Fact: Most ILLEGALS rent houses with multiple families living in them so you can't even say they pay a fair share of property taxes through rent payments. There many other facts that support the FACT we need to get the ILLEGAL aliens, regardless of country of origin, out of the US. Oh, yes, I won't even mention the terrorist threat, why bother since appologist such as yourself don't seem to give a flying F**k if more Americans are blown to hell because we leave our southern border open to all comers.

[MileHi]

Do you want f&*&*ng Hillary Clinton as President, Nancy Pelosi as Speaker, and Harry Reid as majority leader? That's straight where this political Buchananite anti-immigration trainwreck is leading.

Some of you just won't stop. Here let me fix it for you so can stop beating that straw man:

anti-ILLEGAL immigration

There, now that we defined terms, argue away.

[brytlea]

I would even be suspicious of the stats suggesting crime is lower. Alot of crime goes unreported since people see that nothing is ever done.
susie

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

They believe that only statistics that support the anti-immigrant side should be posted. No rational debate should be allowed.

There is a principle that trumps the statistics from both sides, and that is our country's sovereign right to get rid of anyone we have not invited in.

[skeeter]

I take it this means Tony & you are at odds, since you proposed in your essay 'Antz' cutting off the incentives that draw the illegals here, while Tony believes the more the merrier.

[calex59]

So if we call you, and others like you, apologist assholes the term is in context and you won't object?

[investigateworld]

Nice try, I worked in a very corrupt nasty place where unions gave honest cops some degree of protection.
Oh your certainly right about unions. The new welfare centers were built by illegals, not being paid prevailing wages, even though there was federal money involved.
The legitimate contractors complained to my captain who handed the case to me with a laugh.
When I interviewed the managing officers of the construction locals, they were pi$$ed off too that their members lost the work. but they stated their "National Headquarters" didn't want to embarrass the new citizens and they were to lay low.
Only a select few were told that Davis Bacon was being waived, so they were able to unbid the free market by a few percentage points and make a killing.
As they say "Import the Third World, become the third World".

[immigration lady]

thank yoouuu!!!

Legal vs illegal. Legal vs illegal. Legal vs illegal.

Can't we just place some C-4 along the border? or perhaps bombblast a really, really deep trench about 600 feet wide? They can't cross it, can't build a tunnel through it...The only place available to cross would be the legitimate border... wouldn't cost as much as erecting a wall...

Fine immigration attorneys who aid and abet the illegals by not reporting them...

[muleskinner]

Name calling right in the title..

Look at it from a historical perspective. Not much different than calling someone a democrat or republican.

What was the name of a large, popular political party in the mid-1800's? It had legs 'til the Civil War broke out, and a bunch of Irish made the ultimate sacrifice for the North.

[mlc9852]

When was the last time a Mexican attacked America? I worry much more about letting Muslims into our country but none of our great leaders seem to think that's a problem. The religion of peace. Yeah, right.

[r9etb]

I'll grant you that, as far as it goes, but as wildly divergent as the estimates are of how many illegals are in the country, I don't think anybody's suggested they come even close to being 30% of the population. In any event, I'm not trying to make a point about criminal proclivity but about strains on our financial resources and criminal justice system.

There's also the question of whether there is such a high proportion of illegals, because there's no alternative except to keep them in prison -- unlike American criminals, who get parole at relatively high rates. Perhaps it's just a "filter" effect.

[rightinthemiddle]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1607020/posts

[monkeywrench]

Tony Snow---whig.

[kesg]

And naturally you assume that that was because of a law that the people themselves voted for. Of course! It's always been a bedrock principle of politics that you can't let people vote for something that's unpopular. :-S

I remember when the GOP once had an electoral lock on the Presidency because of California. That's now gone. You cannot p!$$ off an entire large block of the electorate and expect to go on winning elections. This is politics 101. President Bush did better in 2004 than 2000 because of the Hispanic vote. Now you people are threatening to destroy all that. And if you do, we will have to wait at least a generation or more to get it back. Again, this is a political trainwreck waiting to happen, just as it did in 1992.

[Butcher Kilroy]

I'm in favor of maintaining a country that upholds the great American ideal that "All men are equal under the eyes of the law". In terms of immigration - No special treatment based on country of origin.

[george wythe]

There is a principle that trumps the statistics from both sides, and that is our country's sovereign right to get rid of anyone we have not invited in.

That is rational debate. It's hard to disagree with your statement.

The article simply notes that the statistics are not as dire as the anti-immigrant crowd wants us to believe. In other words, let's be judicious and pragmatic about this issue, instead of acting like Chicken Little.

[Cyropaedia]

Spot on IronTank!

The fundamental flaw in illegals/immigrants "saving" Social Security argument is that these idiots forget that it is a proven medical fact that even immigrants do get old! Then we have to fork out a far greater number of SS checks than we would have had to do otherwise.

H - e - l - l - o - o - o....

[ARealMothersSonForever]

I would also like to say, illegals who are paying Federal, State and FICA must be using false documents or committing identity theft, both serious crimes that need to be addressed.

My post, with a supporting IRS link, exposes this assertion as conjecture. You are welcome to research the federal and state taxation entities for raw data and statistical breakdowns of compliance rates for ITIN filings. The "illegal" aspect that is highlighted by many anti-immigration people here boils down to whether a person is a W-2 serf, a 1099 contractor, or a W-7 filing alien. This distinction feeds upon the emotions of the people that are in those classifications. Some are so bold as to propose mandatory citizenship requests, so as to swell the ranks of the W-2 group. And with respect to social security, it is a cradle to grave welfare program. Many staunch conservatives believe in privatization and opt-out rights. Those here that are opposed to immigration are simply advocating protection of a welfare program that big-spending government has over-leveraged. We should consider carefully whether we want our legislative body to make any filing status a felony offense.

[rock58seg]

Secure the borders!!!! Then we'll discuss amnesty.

Oh! And there is no-way I will vote for McCain, for anything.

[r9etb]

For some reason, Tony Snow seems to equate illegal miscreants with good, hardworking Hispanics. I have no doubt the two sets intersect

And they do intersect, rather significantly. I've personally known many Mexican immigrants who fit that description, and I'm sure at least some were illegals -- I never asked.

It's difficult for me to place nice, hard-working folks who're looking for a better life -- into the same classification as drug dealers and gang-bangers. Call me names if you'd like, but they're not the same sort of "criminal."