Posted on 03/31/2006 6:42:48 AM PST by 84rules
Whether you are for the FairTax or Flat Tax, go ahead and cast your vote. As of this writing, with over 9700 votes in, the FairTax is leading the Flat Tax 43% to 11%. 43% are not not supporting either one. 2% will support either one.
Heads up...
Fair
I like the flat tax better, cuz it seems like it'd be easier to not pay that one.
How about NO TAX!
I'm not sold on either one at this point. Just when I start to think the "Fair Tax" is the way to go, another point is brought up that chases me away from the idea.
All I am 100% certain of - the current IRS code is neither "flat" nor "fair". It is a corrupt funding scheme for an out-of-control list of unconstitutional government programs.
I would imagine, despite the negatives I have heard regarding both of these plans, that either would be far superior to our current tax system.
If anyone would like to be added to this ping list let me know.
John Linder in the House(HR25) & Saxby Chambliss Senate(S25) offer a comprehensive bill to kill all income and SS/Medicare payroll taxes outright and replace them with with a national retail sales tax administered by the states.
H.R.25,S.25
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.Refer for additional information:
I tried that argument on someone far more knowledgable that me - big mistake. History (and I'm not referring to the revisionist liberal history now being taught in public schools) reads otherwise.
If someone can point me to some evidence to the contrary, please feel free, but my research thus far indicates (regardless of my personal feelings) that the 16th Amendment WAS legally ratified.
Definatley favor the fair tax..the flat tax still requires an intrusive IRS and exhaustive record keeping, accountants fees and would continue to perpetuate the underground economy that avoids taxes altogether.
As an aside, on that same web page you can see prior polls - interesting poll about who you want to be Democrat nominee in 2008 --- Howard Dean wins, Liberman second and the Hilldabeast comes in third.
Moot point.
If you try and avoid it, you'll find out real fast that LE and the courts very much consider it to be in force.
Past time to pull the communist income tax out by the roots.
That's the only hope our kids and grandkids have to be free and prosperous...
Bump.
I'm with you on that.
The current system = social engineering.
More kids + more real estate debt = less taxes.
(Has anyone determined if that is really a bad thing? Aside from the over complexity and loopholes I mean. I'm not looking for a flame-war, I'm just curious- from a long term societal impact perspective. Of course less taxes + smaller government = better, but how do we get there? ---- And don't tell me FairTax does becaus it doesn't, it just shifts the burden - really now how can a conservative support paying for social security out of a retail tax, that is just silly.)
Look up the State of Kentucky. The State Legislature supposedly ratified the 16th Amendment on a Sunday when other records of the day say they were not in session.
Put me down as a Fair Tax supporter. If enacted, the USA would become THE tax haven in the world for business and as such our economy would boom like never before. On top of that, it catches all the people who are evading taxes now, i.e., illegals, folks who work for cash, drug dealers, thieves, folks with illicit unreported gambling income, etc.
I lean towards teh Fair Tax. I see it as the FIRST step towards taming the Federal leviathan. Not that last... just the first.
One of the problems I have with the "fair tax" is that the lower your income, the more of your income (as a percentage) you pay in taxes.
Someone who makes enough to support their family, but don't have much left over to save, will pay tax on just about every dollar they spend in support of that family (close to 100% of their income is taxed).
The person who makes enough money to put some back in savings/investments will only pay taxes on the money they actually spend. Thus a much smaller portion of their actual income is taxed.
And with the fact that many states use the sales tax as the catch-all solution to funding every lame-brained scheme - many areas already have high sales tax rates. Add to that the type of rates I have seen bantered about for a national tax rate....and it adds up to a higher portion of my income (referring to my own personal financial position) will go to taxes than currently goes to taxes.
Only the fairtax will accomplish that lauable goal.
"it adds up to a higher portion of my income (referring to my own personal financial position) will go to taxes than currently goes to taxes."
I don't think your out of the norm there.
My biggest peeve regarding fairtax (there are things I like about it, i.e. promotes business, promotes savings) is the lack of straightforwardness from supporters.
Gross income remaining steady = higher gross prices OR Steady gross prices = Gross income being reduced. There is no way around that fact -- Key FairTax people have finally succumbed to admitting it (they initially said the opposite) but it isn't exactly advertised.
If prices are going to drop enough to absorb the tax then that means your gross income will also drop. If your gross income is going to remain steady (i.e. you get to take it all home) then net prices on products will also remain steady and the tax will be added on.
So then it just becomes a matter of: if your take home pay under FairTax will actually be about the same as your take home pay today AND the total price of products you consume increases even slightly then how exactly is middle and lower class better off?
The only answers to that question rely on a world of hypotheticals and assumptions.
To be honest, if the government wasn't spending so enormously as a percentage of GDP I wouldn't care how they collected it.
This argument is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. It distracts from the real issue, namely that spending is out of control.
Having read most of the 65 page bill of Linder's Fair Tax, I see much to cheer, and several things to worry about.
Things to cheer. Everyone would receive a monthly check to cover the 23% sales tax up to a certain figure related to the poverty level, so it would not affect the really poor. Presumably illegal aliens who are not on the radar would not get this money. All used items including used houses and cars would not be taxed when sold. This would encourage saving resources and recycling.
Things to worry about. Anyone taking or sending their money overseas to buy or give to family would not pay any tax on money earned in this country. This would include the rich buying overseas property, antiques, boats, etc. and immigrants sending remittances to people back home. Perhaps there should be a tax on exported money for the amount above what a traveling tourist might ordinarily spend.
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