Immigration and the GOP Is it still the party of Reagan, or of Tom Tancredo?

Wall Street Journal ^ | 3/31/2006 | Review and OUtlook

[pageonetoo]

As Congress battles over immigration, the consequences are likely to be far greater than the details of border walls or green cards. The most important political outcome may turn out to be the message that Republicans send about the kind of the party they are and hope to be.

To wit, do Republicans want to continue in the Reagan tradition of American optimism and faith in assimilation that sends a message of inclusiveness to all races? Or will they take another one of their historical detours into a cramped, exclusionary policy that tells millions of new immigrants, and especially Hispanics, that they belong somewhere else?...

...The immediate danger is that Republicans will ignore their longer-term interests by passing a punitive, and poll-driven, anti-immigration bill this election year. Any bill that merely harasses immigrants and employers, and stacks more cops on the border, may win cheers in the right-wing blogosphere. However, it will do nothing to address the economic incentives that will continue to exist for poor migrants to come to America to feed their families. And it will make permanent enemies of millions of Hispanics, without doing anything to draw illegals out of the shadows and help them assimilate into the mainstream of American culture and citizenship.

This is not Ronald Reagan's view of America as a "shining city on a hill." It is the chauvinist conservatism usually associated with the European right. How Republicans conduct and conclude their immigration debate will show the country which kind of "conservative" party they want to be.

[pageonetoo]

I guess you would be happier if this guy was doing a "less' evil living to you than running a lawn care business, such as operating a crack house.

Illegal is illegal. Put him in jail, either way. It would be cheaper to tax us for his families upkeep while he is in jail, than to tax us for the cost of illegal aliens...

[Dane]

Illegal is illegal. Put him in jail, either way. It would be cheaper to tax us for his families upkeep while he is in jail, than to tax us for the cost of illegal aliens..

It's illegal to drill for oil in ANWR now. Should we just let it stay that way.

And please tell me what is so evil about having a business that mows lawns in an efficient way?

The only people who may object to that are the envirowhackos, after all every blade of grass feels the pain.

[FBD]

>"Just wondering do you wear t-shirts with this guys face on it."<

I haven't been on an illegal immigration thread for quite awhile, but I wasn't surprised to see you here; still using the same old tactics. I notice other posters largely ignore you now. It must be very lonely without Cultural Jihad and Bayourod to keep you company.

[pageonetoo]

...And please tell me what is so evil about having a business that mows lawns in an efficient way?

I never referenced anything "evil" in efficiency. I do recognize the benefits personally. However, dane, your typical straw man doesn't stand up in the light of the hiring of ILLEGAL INVADERS to perform those works!

Go away and pose your arguments to someone with no brains! Maybe you can convince them with your ignorance, or simple desire to bring harm to American folks and their families.

You may reply, but you will get no more response. I was only being courteous when I pinged you. You cannot seem to be convinced of anything, based on facts, nor reality.

[Dane]

I haven't been on an illegal immigration thread for quite awhile, but I wasn't surprised to see you here; still using the same old tactics. I notice other posters largely ignore you now. It must be very lonely without Cultural Jihad and Bayourod to keep you company

Not at all, I'm a "rough individualist".

Anyway, JMO, don't give up your day job to becomes a sarcastic commentator.

[Dane]

I haven't been on an illegal immigration thread for quite awhile, but I wasn't surprised to see you here; still using the same old tactics. I notice other posters largely ignore you now. It must be very lonely without Cultural Jihad and Bayourod to keep you company

Not at all, I'm a "rough individualist".

Anyway, JMO, don't give up your day job to become a sarcastic commentator.

[SJackson]

And please tell me what is so evil about having a business that mows lawns in an efficient way?...The only people who may object to that are the envirowhackos, after all every blade of grass feels the pain.

Not the only one.

Since we're comparing lawn care anecdotes, I've an acquantance who runs a successful lawn care/snow plowing business employing 30 or 40. He's from Mexico, here about 25 years, a citizen for 10 or 15. His employees are mostly hispanic, all legal he tells me, and I believe him. He's one of the staunchest opponents of illegal immigration I know. It's his contension, which I also believe, that it locks his employees, who are following the law and working hard, into minimum wage compensation. Including those in supervisory positions. There's no advancement, and the success of his business is limited, because of competition from illegal labor.

You're right, the customers of firms hiring illegals won't object, I doubt the envirowhackos will either, nor will the employers of illegals. But there are those who are being harmed.

[pageonetoo]

Since we're comparing lawn care anecdotes...

He wasn't. He was positing a typical straw man argument. It is not relevant to the issue, but that means nothing.

Your friend is to be commended, and supported, if he denies employment to those without proper documents. I wish there were more like him...

[Dane]

His employees are mostly hispanic, all legal he tells me, and I believe him.

Interesting, especiallly, since some on FR see a guy named Jose, mowing a lawn, scream illegal.

Nice try at putting the genie back in the bottle, SJackson, even though you post threads on FR letting the genie of hysteria out.

[samcgwire]

Tancredo has my vote if he runs.

[Dane]

He wasn't. He was positing a typical straw man argument. It is not relevant to the issue, but that means nothing.

Answer the question pageonetoo, should drilling in ANWR be legal or illegal. It's illegal now. JMO I think the law should be changed.

[SJackson]

Nice try at putting the genie back in the bottle, SJackson, even though you post threads on FR letting the genie of hysteria out.

What genie?

[Celtjew Libertarian]

What do you have against Tom T., my friend?

I having problems because it's the same old thing that was said about the Irish Catholics and Germans in the mid 19th century and the Jews and Italians in the late 19th and early 20th, and the Asians for the mid-20th... They don't fit in... they'll change things... they'll bring American down... Never happened.

Now there are a few problems with the present situation. One is that the left insists that the Hispanic immigrants don't have to assimilate. Well, the Irish, Jews, Germans, Asians did -- they had and still have their own newspapers and languages and communities. But they have to deal with the rest of the U.S. in English... Bilingualism does far more harm than good.

They should have a good knowledge of American history. When my grandmother was deep in Alzheimer's, there were two things she could remember: The main neighborhoods of Prague, where she came from, and every President from Washington to FDR, which she had to memorize and recite to be a citizen.

There's a lot of other requirements I'd put on immigrants: Keep their legal nose clean, don't expect any help, at least from the federal government (I'm sure there would be individual states and municipalities that would provide aid). We need better-controlled borders to weed out the terrorists and those who are criminals (in other senses than illegally immigrating).

But frankly, anyone who is willing to support themselves (or has someone who will do so), will obey the law, and isn't carrying a communicable disease should be allowed into the U.S.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

Thanks for identifying yourself as a quisling.

You're welcome.

[SJackson]

He wasn't. He was positing a typical straw man argument. It is not relevant to the issue, but that means nothing...Your friend is to be commended, and supported, if he denies employment to those without proper documents. I wish there were more like him...

The way to do that is to crack down on the employers of illegals. The southern border aside, I can think of a couple acquaintances in the skilled building trades who would tell the same story. Illegals, in their case mostly Eastern Europeans overstaying visas, depress wages. We need some level of immigrant labor, even temporary labor, but it has to be regulated. And, imo, disconnected from the citizenship process.

[Dane]

What genie?

Uh the one of your friend who says that all his hispanic workers are legal, when the current thought perpetuated by you on the threads you post and cheered, is that if somebody has a hispanic worker mowing lawns is hiring "illegals", while the basic good of providing a good service(unlike running a crack house) gets lost in the ethnic animus you promote.

[FBD]

>"Anyway, JMO, don't give up your day job to become a sarcastic commentator."<

no, I won't...it doesn't pay very well for me to waste my day here on FR. I need to be productive, and get back to my business. How about you, Dane? Or are you one of these common garden variety thieves who spends their work day posting messages on FR, when they should be giving their employer an honest days work?
...hmmmm?
;^)

[ElPatriota]

Please participate on my post on the Immigration issues. I think it's important we hear all points of view. Oh yes...you can FLAME AWAY as much as you want to! :)

---

on ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - and why I am CONFLICTED by the whole thing (just my thoughts)


Posted on 03/31/2006 11:01:24 AM EST by ElPatriota


This issue is so HUGE, I don't know where to start. Why am I doing this? see my profile and because I owe it to the people who agree with me here in FR and because this is just damn important to me and to the country, I believe. Excuse the English, best I could do)

My mantra on this has always been: Secure the border first then we can talk about it. Notice the statement is comprised of two parts:

[Part 1] Secure the border first

[Part 2] then we can talk about it.

The ORDER of the parts are important and so is the TIMING.


As of now, it seems as if the president decided to do PART 2 first, and then, PERHAPS... a little of PART-1. Is it any wonder so many are so pi**** off? :). Whoever advises the WH on how do these things seem to have lost the magic touch. Little missteps add up and pretty soon they all add up to a BIG perception and someone is fumbling the ball too many times.


What I wish the president had done:


If president GWB had TAKEN THE INITIATIVE all by himself a year ago or so... (without any appearance of political convenience as it may appear now, like his low poll numbers to name one) and had used the bully pulpit just as he did with the social security reform a while ago to tackle BOTH issue: Illegal Immigration and border security... I just have the feeling things would have worked out so much better.

Timing: He should have done this by the beginning of his second term. The war was under way... he was fresh of his re-election victory, had plenty of "political capital" as he calls it... THAT would have been the PERFECT TIME to have taken on this problem. After all, Illegal Immigrations is something people have been sick of for years and years! (I know, I lived in San Diego CA prior to 1996), but more importantly he could have accomplished BOTH issues had he tied them with the skill of a surgeon. He could have said then what he is saying now... He could have said something like ".... I want to SECURE the border, because we have people dying in Iraq to keep our enemy from doing us harm so it only makes sense to do it here as well... but in order to secure the border, I HAVE TO FIX THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION first ( which by the way, we need them for our economy, etc - in small print), so that we can actually CONCENTRATE on keeping the bad people out. This year I will stop the flow of illegal people crossing the border and once I have done that I will switch my attention to the illegals already here, etc, etc..."

[Dane]

no, I won't...it doesn't pay very well for me to waste my day here on FR. I need to be productive, and get back to my business. How about you, Dane? Or are you one of these common garden variety thieves who spends their work day posting messages on FR, when they should be giving their employer an honest days work? ...hmmmm?

Nope, I post from my own paid internet account and not mooching off the boss.

[SJackson]

Uh the one of your friend who says that all his hispanic workers are legal, when the current thought perpetuated by you on the threads you post and cheered, is that if somebody has a hispanic worker mowing lawns is hiring "illegals", while the basic good of providing a good service(unlike running a crack house) gets lost in the ethnic animus you promote.

You need to provide some examples of the ethnic animus I promote along with examples of my cheering what I presume you're contending is anti-Mexican bigotry to have any credibility.

Lacking that, I'll presume you're unable to address the implact illegal labor has on legal employers, other than in a trollish fashion.