Law HR4437; A Little Too Far? (Illegal Immigration)

This is a post on another forum from a Mexican concerning the HR4437 that was passed by Congress and will be signed into law pending the President's seal of approval.

This is NOT a political slam post, this is NOT going to argue for one side or another. This is a WARNING for those who will be affected by this announcement and a strong urge to either do something about it or prepare for the consequences.

This past week, Congress passed the first of a new slew of immigration laws, law HR4437. While many don't mind them cracking down and appreciate the new temporary worker programs being set up and laws to give many illegal immigrants visas, this new law may ruin the lives of American born citizens who simply LOOK like they may be from another country.

THIS POST ONLY INVOLVES INFORMATION FOR HR4437.

This new law is NATIONWIDE. It requires any immigrants or people with temporary visas to waive any and all rights to due process in case of a criminal charge (no matter how minor, including traffic violations). While this may not seem so bad, this is very bad when you take into consideration that if a police officer pulls you over, he or she has the right to ask any and all passengers for their ID. This law includes that anyone who helps an immigrant or someone who can't prove that they are from the US or have a genuine visa ON THE SPOT can be arrested. This means that if you cannot prove you are legally in the US, EVERYONE in the car can be (and most likely will) arrested and those without proof will be immediately handed over to the office of immigration and be DEPORTED WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OR A TRIAL.

This may not seem all that likely to you guys, but if this law passes, you will have no right to question it AT ALL. If you have no ID or visa on you at that time, you will be denied a lawyer, contact with any family, and immediately deported to whatever country they see fit. Your only available option will be to leave the couontry yourself, and if you do not, you will be put on the wanted list by the police and the next time you suffer a violation, you will pay a higher fine, be arrested, and deported with no options whatsoever, not even to tell your family or get money out of the bank.

Here's the lowdown by each section of the law.

Section 201, 4, iv: Any immigrant or suspected alien who cannot prove legal residence or citizenship can be deported for any criminal activity in the past 15 years regardless of the previous law limiting that date back to Sept. 30'th 1996. (In order to prove citizenship, you must provide a government issues ID a social security card, and a birth certificate. If 2 or all of these are missing or found to be fraudulent, YOU WILL BE DEPORTED, regardless if you legitimately cannot find them or if they were stolen.)

Section 202, Section 274, entirety: If any person (regardless of citizenship) can be confined up to 5 years if he simply DRIVES an illegal immigrant or person who cannot prove citizenship around town, as well as aiding, employing, housing, loaning money to, or helping with financial problems. If the person who is charged can be proven to have financially gained from helping at least 2 such people, then the imprisonment terms can be UP TO TWENTY YEARS IN A STATE PENITENTARY WITH A 3 YEAR MINIMUM, depending on the circumstance. For employers of such people, they can face a prison term of up to 5 years and/or be fined heavily. It continues to say that ANY property that was involved in breaking this law WILL be confiscated to the government, meaning that EMPLOYERS WILL LOSE THEIR BUILDING AND BUSINESS TO THE GOVERNMENT. OTHER PEOPLE CAN LOSE THEIR HOMES, VEHICLES, AND PLACES OF EMPLOYMENT WITH NO POSSIBILITY OR PERMISSION TO ARGUE AGAINST THE MATTER IN ANY STATE OR FEDERAL COURT.

Section 204, section 274 continued: this section allows the suspect to prove his citizenship only in court, but later DENIES THE RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS. Since the right to due process is later denied, the suspect will not be allowed to present his case and will be considered an illegal alien and be deported, as noted in section 208.

Section 208: This section gives the suspect 120 days to exit the country on their own given that they sign A WAIVER TO ANY RIGHTS TO PROTEST THEIR DEPORTATION, REGARDLESS OF ANY EVIDENCE OF CITIZENSHIP OR NATIONALITY PROVEDED AFTER THE FACT. The ruling judge can also shorten this time to however short he sees fit. If the suspect does not leave the country within the designated time, they will be fined $3,000 dollars, will be deported, and will not be allowed entry into the country for 10 years on any visa.

Section 402: The suspect can be detained in ANY penitentiary that the government sees fit, regardless of any additional crimes committed or not. This not limit the amount of time a suspect can be detained before being deported; the previous limits were for those who simply AIDED the suspect.

Section 407: If the country of the suspect's nationality or ethnicity refuses to accept the immigrant, any and all immigration of citizens of that country may be halted until the country in question accepts the deportees. This will give the government an excuse to stop all immigration from countries that may deny a criminal from re-entering their country.

Section 802: The revocation of a genuine visa regardless of circumstance may not be reviewed in any court in the United states and the immigrant will be deported and not allowed to re-enter for 10 years. This means that ANY LEGAL IMMIGRANT who aided a suspected illegal immigrant will suffer the same consequences.

Section 803: Anyone pending deportation may only object to their deportation and attempt to prove their legal right to be in the US if they are not guilty of aiding an illegal immigrant in any of the aforementioned ways may do so in the DC circuit. HOWEVER, this must be done BEFORE THE DEPORTATION, hence the suspect must sign the contract allowing them to leave on their own. This not only LIMITS THEIR ABILITY TO DO SO WITH A TIME LIMIT OF 120 DAYS OR LESS AND MUST FILE WITHIN 60 DAYS, but the point is NULLIFIED SINCE THEY MUST SIGN A WAIVER OF THEIR RIGHT TO PROTEST THEIR DEPORTATION IN ORDER TO LEAVE THEMSELVES. If they try to protest while still imprisoned pending deportation, and thus have not signed the waiver, they have only a matter of days, and since they cannot claim their right to habeus corpus, the court will refuse to consider the appeal since the suspect cannot be present for their appeal. THUS ANYONE WHO WANTS TO APPEAL THEIR DEPORTATION ON THE GROUND OF BEING A US CITIZEN OR A LEGAL IMMIGRANT AND IS INNOCENT OF HELPING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT OR OTHER SUSPECT CANNOT LEGALLY DO SO AND WILL BE DEPORTED ANYWAY!

And finally, Section 809: Any alien who obtains a non-immigrant visa automatically waives any rights to appeal or argue their case if they are suspected and arrested for any of the above charges. This means that any person with a non-immigrant visa (meaning a temporary one or a work visa) IS DENIED DUE PROCESS IN THE CASE OF BEING CHARGED WITH ANY CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, NO MATTER HOW MINOR (as shown in the earlier sections showing what criminal charges are grounds for deportation, which is actually ANY criminal activity), AND THUS WILL BE DEPORTED WITHOUT POSSIBILITY OF APPEAL.

This may seem unreal or as though it will not affect you, but here is my personal reason for alarm. If my mother is driving me to work, we get pulled over for whatever reason, and I don't happen to have my ID with me, WE BOTH WILL BE ARRESTED AND DEPORTED WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF APPEAL. We wouldn't be able to re-enter the country for 10 years. My grandmother will lose her business, my mother will lose her house and car, and this will happen REGARDLESS OF THE FACT WE CAN PROVE WE ARE CITIZENS.

This new law strips me of my basic right to live in thsi country given to me because I AM A CITIZEN. IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND HAS NO SAFEGUARDS. EVEN IF THE PERSON THEY CHECK FOR ID IS A CHILD AND WOULD REASONABLY HAVE NO ID ON THEIR PERSON, ANYONE CARING FOR THE CHILD CAN BE DEPORTED, INCLUDING TEACHERS, DAY CARE PROVIDERS, PARENTS, SIBLINGS, DOCTORS, ETC.

All because I am Mexican and can simply be suspected of being an immigrant.

This law can ruin my life, and it can strip me of everything I own and have worked for if I simply don't have my ID when an officer asks it of me FOR ANY REASON, EVEN IF THERE IS NO CRIMINAL CHARGE INVOLVED.

Tomorrow there is a march in LA specifically against this law. I would go were is not for the need for someone to run the business. My mother donated 1,000 dollars and 500 refreshments for marchers tomorrow and will attend herself. If this law is signed, our lives could be changed by a simple slip of not carrying our ID's on our person or being caught with someone who does not have their ID.

There is nothing more I can say, but know this: THIS IS NOT A JOKE, AND THIS LAW HAS ALREADY BEEN PASSED BY CONGRESS. THE LAST STEP IS FOR PRESIDENT BUSH TO SIGN IT. I BEG YOU, SO WHATEVER YOU CAN TO HELP STOP THIS SPECIFIC LAW.

Links for information:

Official recording in the House: http://www.rules.house.gov/109/text/hr4437/109_hr4437_text.pdf

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:XIRm9VQlrnUJ:www.ilrc.org/HR4437.html+HR4437&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-rights-immigration-march.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
(This NY Times article leaves out the fact that HR4437 has already passed Congress, but warns of additional laws that will strip rights of those suspected of being immigrants. It does include information about marches against the signing of this law by President Bush.)

No.

Unless they cut both of my hands off, my fingerprints are in the NCIS database. Same for my Naturalized wife.

When I leave the house, I have my driver's license with me.
ID is not an issue for me.

I live less than 40 miles from the border with MX.

Personal responsibility...

If you're a foreigner living abroad, you'd best be prepared to prove you have the legal right to be there at any time.

With the prevalence of the ACLU, and all the other screaming-meemie Meatheads, there is no way that people would not be given a reasonable chance to prove residence. A 30-day trial waiting period is unnecessary. We're just talking about deportation. In the extremely unlikely instance that someone were actually wrongly deported, I'm sure the Mexican (or whatever foreign) government would help them in any way necessary to get back.

HB 4437 is a well thought-out piece of legislation that will have exactly, precisely, the intended effect: slowing or halting illegal immigration. Thus the reason its' detractors are so rabid in denouncing it... ...it would actually work, so they're doing everything in their power to stop it.

They are starting up this profiling crap argument again." If they don't speak English, they probably shouldn't be here...

Nope. Just if you can't prove you are a citizen of the USA you cannot be employed or get any goverment services here.

" If you're a foreigner living abroad, you'd best be prepared to prove you have the legal right to be there at any time."

Your absolutely right. I've done my share of traveling outside our country. I ALWAYS make sure I have my papers in order. I would expect to be detained if I did not.

I am really surprised that the bill got this far! But HAPPY about it. What surprises me is that many construction and business owners (Repubbies) hire illegals. Will this pass? I'm anxious to find out. If it doesn't, I will blame the Repubbies.

Shouldn't Mexico reform its OWN immigration laws before complaining about ours? Here's a potentially astonishing related thread which details how FLAGRANTLY anti-gringo Mexico's immigration laws are compared to our own:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1602610/posts

Can you believe it? Why doesn't the media cover this information (yet)? That would set the race-baiters still in their tracks!

Would it be considered spamming to send emails to everyone of them?

I sent an email to Frist yesterday.

Cornyn MAY do something constructive but Hutchison WON'T!

You are an idiot. Why should we allow illegal immigrants into this country ? People who are here illegally should be departed it unfair for those who obtained a legal citizenship the proper way for illegals to stay here. People say owe we need illegals cause they do jobs Americans wont. The reason why cause they do it for less. Now, if those businesses are enforced by the department of labor for better wages I guarantee Americans will take the job. And why should illegals have American right they only deserve human rights here not American rights they have not earned that privilege. Hence they are not Americans. My point you came here for a better life now you dont like cause of the laws. Wasn't this the same reason you left your own country ? Instead of rioting here you should of done it there in the first place.

No the law should be enforced harder and HR-4437 does just that. It's always better to be stricked then lenient. It teaches people a lesson for years people have been walking in and out of our country with out being stopped or checked . Also not going through the proper channels its a slap in the face to those who did go through the proper channels to be here . This law should be enforced.

This is not profiling cause any law enforcer can do it of any nationality. Look if you can't prove you belong here then you shouldn't. American's and people who came here legally have been slapped in the face far to long by people who came here illegally it is time to drop the hammer on there butts

You are an idiot. Why should we allow illegal immigrants into this country ?

I don't know what you think I've posted but I am 100% on your side on this. These protest have me so wound up that I am avoiding this subject on this forum all together. I will get back to it when I am again able to carry a civil conversation on this. Try not to blow a gasket...and watch that aim.. ;-)

"this new law may ruin the lives of American born citizens who simply LOOK like they may be from another country."

BS, and the bill doesn't go far enough.

It all sounds good to me, the only thing that's missing is a the elinination of any and all social services by any government agency.

I don't know about other states but in CA, any citizen who doesn't qualify for a DL because of age or revocation can be issued an ID from the DMV.

It's always been my understanding that it'a illegal not to have ID on your person no matter where you are.

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