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Mayan Underworld Proves Researchers' Dream
Yahoo News - Reuters ^ | 3-20-2006

Posted on 03/20/2006 4:09:06 PM PST by blam

Mayan underworld proves researchers' dream

By Tim Gaynor

Mon Mar 20, 8:49 AM ET

Reuters Photo: Divers make their way through a freshwater sinkhole, known as a cenote, in Mexico's Yucatan... "

TULUM, Mexico (Reuters) - The ancient Maya once believed that Mexico's jungle sinkholes containing crystalline waters were the gateway to the underworld and the lair of a surly rain god who had to be appeased with human sacrifices.

Now, the "cenotes," deep sinkholes in limestone that have pools at the bottom, are yielding scientific discoveries including possible life-saving cancer treatments.

Divers are dipping into the cenotes, which stud the Yucatan peninsula, to explore a vast underground river system.

Hefting air tanks, guidelines and waterproof lamps, they have so far mapped 405 miles of channels that form part of a huge subterranean river delta flowing into the Caribbean sea, and they are only just starting.

Scientists investigating the network of caverns and galleries, formed by rainwater passing through porous limestone, have found a wealth of early archeological relics and prehistoric animal bones.

They also have identified dozens of new aquatic species specially adapted to extreme environmental conditions which could have medical applications.

In the Riviera Maya, a strip of Caribbean tourist resorts including the world-famous archeological site of Tulum, there are more than 500 cenotes. Some are open to the jungle, while others have tiny eye-like holes letting in sunlight and jungle roots.

Their waters have filtered through sponge-like limestone which leaves them so transparent that divers say they feel like they are floating in space. The pools range in depth from a few feet (a meter) to an abyss where explorers have still not touched bottom at over 500 feet.

"It is proving to be a totally unique environment," said marine biologist Tom Iliffe of Texas A&M University. "We are finding things down there including forms of life that no one had ever guessed existed, and there is a lot more work to be done."

BLIND FISH AND MAMMOTHS

The Yucatan sits on a limestone plateau where rainwater percolates down to nonporous rock below ground. Over millions of years, underground river systems have formed that flow out to the sea through caves.

The region's 7,000 to 8,000 cenotes were formed when caves collapsed in on themselves. The resulting sinkholes became a vital water source and a focus for Mayan sacrifices to honor Chac, the volatile, crocodile-like rain deity.

In recent years, biologists delving into the underlying river systems, which unlike the sinkholes are jet-black because of the lack of sunlight, have identified 40 entirely new species, mostly blind shrimps and fish which have adapted to life in the system's harsh conditions, where dissolved oxygen and food are scarce.

Among the startling discoveries are microorganisms that live in the transitional zone where the fresh water rivers flow out into the Caribbean, and salt-water sponges which may contain anti-tumor compounds.

"Research is at an early stage, but it is quite possible that the bacteria and sponges may have potential biomedical applications including cures for cancer," Iliffe told Reuters in a telephone interview. "There is a great deal of scientific excitement about it."

Other finds made by divers roaming the deep, dark corridors include the bones of giant jungle sloths, rabbits and even mammoths dating back beyond the last Ice Age.

"When you come up and tell people there are elephants down there they really think you've gone crazy," said Sam Meacham, an underwater explorer and conservationist.

THREATENED BY DEVELOPMENT

In the past three decades the population of the Riviera Maya has soared 10-fold to close to 1 million people, as tourists from the United States, Europe and Mexico flock to the palm-fringed strip to soak up the sun.

Environmentalists say that the explosive development has been only patchily regulated and warn that waste produced by resort hotels and service towns in the area is already polluting the complex underground oasis.

"It's totally the Wild West, when what is needed is carefully planned, sustainable development," said Meacham, who runs the Quintana Roo Water Systems Research Center, a local non-profit group that raises consciousness about water issues in schools.

Water conservation will be a key issue when ministers, hydrologists and environmentalists from around the world meet at the World Water Forum in Mexico City from March 16-22.

Meacham says human sewage is pumped deep underground, and that at least one water system in the Yucatan has been polluted with fecal matter. The impact of 250 tonnes of trash dumped in landfills each day has yet to be evaluated.

The hundreds of tourists who dive and snorkel each day in any of a dozen cenotes and caves open to the public are also unwittingly destroying the ecosystems before they can be properly understood, Iliffe says.

"Fish are following the divers into the caves and they gobble up all the life, and they (the caves) are left biologically sterile," he said.

"When you consider that they could possibly lead to a cure for cancer, it is essential to conserve them."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: dream; freepun; godsgravesglyphs; mayan; proves; researchers; underworld
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Tulum is on the coast overlooking the Gulf. Beautiful sight.

There are drawings on the walls of some of the underwater channels that can only be accessed by using scuba gear. The question asked is how did the Mayans do it?

1 posted on 03/20/2006 4:09:11 PM PST by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
GGG Ping.

Tulum

2 posted on 03/20/2006 4:15:13 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

cool a post from blam,,,,,I like your posts.


3 posted on 03/20/2006 4:26:55 PM PST by meanie monster (http://guptonator.myvideochat.net)
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To: blam
I've dove very near there, along the coast in shallow water the fresh water pours into the ocean from large cracks in the bottom between 0-15'. Its really strange swimming in the ocean, passing through a thermo-saline into fresh water. You can taste it, see it, and notice the fish reacting to it.
4 posted on 03/20/2006 4:32:15 PM PST by Slicksadick (Go out on a limb........Its where the fruit is.)
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To: blam
Now, the "cenotes," deep sinkholes in limestone that have pools at the bottom, are yielding scientific discoveries including possible life-saving cancer treatments.

I always get a chuckle out of these articles.
The implication is either that the stone age denizens of the cultures had their biochemists identify cancer cures, or that by trial and error they identified miracle cures which they could not record, since they never did invent writing...

So how is the "cancer cure" statement justified?

My theory is that it's a scam invented to allow a bunch of people to have fun and get foundations and governments to pay for their recreation.

Sure beats getting a real job...

5 posted on 03/20/2006 4:54:58 PM PST by Publius6961 (Multiculturalism is the white flag of a dying country)
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To: Publius6961

Agreed, to me it seems equally as valid to claim that the organism that has lain dormant for hundreds/thousands of years could introduce a plague across the Earth which could kill tens of millions of people. Of course, it could also be the next cure for baldness or sterility, but somehow it seems cancer is always thrown out there first.


6 posted on 03/20/2006 5:03:04 PM PST by bobwoodard
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To: blam
This is truly fascinating, but I can't help but ponder the Master Equation to Get More Funding, undertones of which seem to appear in this article:

My Research + $$ = Cure for Cancer

My Research + "Threatened by Development" = $$

(Of course, it's an awesome discovery, and it will certainly lead to more knowledge. I'm just poking fun at the Research types out there! No offense intended! :) )

7 posted on 03/20/2006 5:26:06 PM PST by detsaoT (Proudly not "dumb as a journalist.")
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To: Slicksadick
Over millions of years, underground river systems have formed that flow out to the sea through caves.

Millions of years huh? they know this how? Or is this a wild guess.? What was the source of this limestone?

The region's 7,000 to 8,000 cenotes were formed when caves collapsed in on themselves. The resulting sinkholes became a vital water source and a focus for Mayan sacrifices to honor Chac, the volatile, crocodile-like rain deity.

They know this how? Or is this another wild guess? Please, let us all see these Myan diaries. How about, these caves were formed when huge pools of limestone slurry settled, and as the limestone settled and compressed, the caverns were formed from the escaping water, a process called a "water lens". As has been learned from observation of the Carlsbad Caverns, stalactites do not take "millons of years" to form. From 1924 to 1988, there was a visitor’s sign above the entrance to Carlsbad Caverns that said Carlsbad was at least 260 million years old. ... In 1988, the sign was changed to read 7 to 10 million years old. Then, for a little while, the sign read that it was 2 million years old. Now the sign is gone. In short, geologists don’t know how long cave development takes. And, while some believe that cave decorations such as S.P.’s beautiful icicle-looking stalactites take years to form, through photo-monitoring, stalactites can grow grow several inches in a matter of days. In recent years, biologists delving into the underlying river systems, which unlike the sinkholes are jet-black because of the lack of sunlight, have identified 40 entirely new species, mostly blind shrimps and fish which have adapted to life in the system's harsh conditions, where dissolved oxygen and food are scarce.

Blind shrimp are not "a new species" they are simply shrimp which have gone blind from lack of sunlight, as are blind fish. They are found all over the world. If anything, it's an example of a loss of information, they have not "evolved" any new abilities, they have lost one.

Among the startling discoveries are microorganisms that live in the transitional zone where the fresh water rivers flow out into the Caribbean, and salt-water sponges which may contain anti-tumor compounds.

These are common in thousands of places all over the planet. What are these anti tumor compounds?

"Research is at an early stage, but it is quite possible that the bacteria and sponges may have potential biomedical applications including cures for cancer," Iliffe told Reuters in a telephone interview. "There is a great deal of scientific excitement about it."

If it's so great, why has nobody published it?

Other finds made by divers roaming the deep, dark corridors include the bones of giant jungle sloths, rabbits and even mammoths dating back beyond the last Ice Age.

The ice age of the jungles of Mexico? How did these mammoths servive in the ice? How did these mammoths get into these underground tunnels? Unless of course, these mammoths were washed into this big ponds of limestone, and as this slurry settled and harded, and water escaping it wia the water lens principle and forming these caverns left the bones exposed. They may be elephant bones from amuch younger age.

"When you come up and tell people there are elephants down there they really think you've gone crazy," said Sam Meacham, an underwater explorer and conservationist.

Indeed. Pehaps if you said they were elephant BONES, they wouldn't think you were nuts.

The hundreds of tourists who dive and snorkel each day in any of a dozen cenotes and caves open to the public are also unwittingly destroying the ecosystems before they can be properly understood, Iliffe says.

Of course. Everyone knows fish are too stupid to swim into places in search of food on thier own. They need directions. A better conclusion is they are "biologically sterile" because of the lack of oxegen in the stagnant water.

"When you consider that they could possibly lead to a cure for cancer, it is essential to conserve them."

Of course. Only "important people" such as yourself should be allowed in there. Not that there is anything to find in this "biologically sterlle" place.
Perhaps it's more like you don't want the place to get too crowded and the water stirred up, so you can have can have your own little fun place to dive., After all, only the "elite" should be allowed to stink up the earth.

8 posted on 03/20/2006 5:53:57 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Publius6961
"So how is the "cancer cure" statement justified? My theory is that it's a scam..."

I agree completely. Scientists are just as likely to find a cancer cure in a toxic waste dump.

9 posted on 03/20/2006 7:21:25 PM PST by norwaypinesavage
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To: Nathan Zachary

I'm not sure why your lengthy reply is addressed to me. Perhaps you need to contact the author?


10 posted on 03/20/2006 7:52:58 PM PST by Slicksadick (Go out on a limb........Its where the fruit is.)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; StayAt HomeMother; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; asp1; ...
Thanks Blam.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

11 posted on 03/20/2006 9:51:23 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Yes indeed, Civ updated his profile and links pages again, on Monday, March 6, 2006.)
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To: blam

Tulum is a gorgeous location.

Apocalypto will have more to say on this subject this summer.


http://apocalypto.movies.go.com/


12 posted on 03/20/2006 9:57:14 PM PST by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: blam
There are drawings on the walls of some of the underwater channels that can only be accessed by using scuba gear. The question asked is how did the Mayans do it?

Sea levels haven't exactly been constant - they're one reason archaeological sites can be found off the coast of Florida.

13 posted on 03/20/2006 10:06:35 PM PST by piasa (Attitude Adjustments Offered Here Free of Charge)
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To: norwaypinesavage

are they all going to go to work at wal-mart if they do find a cure for cancer???

prolly start working on bird flu then!!


14 posted on 03/20/2006 10:14:48 PM PST by cajun-jack
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To: blam
There are drawings on the walls of some of the underwater channels that can only be accessed by using scuba gear. The question asked is how did the Mayans do it?

Interesting. How deep are the channels? A skin diver can go to a depth comparable to that where most scuba dives occur, although for a shorter period of time than a scuba diver of course. If it could be reached by skin diving, that would still leave the problem of how they were able to get the drawings on the walls. Two possibilities (and I'm brainstorming here without the benefit of a map of the site, but just suggesting possible answers to your question) would be a varying water level, enabling a skin diver who has held their breath long enough to reach the channel to breathe in it when the water is lower; or if the drawings are done in some type of pigment that could be drawn underwater, or could possibly be done on the surface and then carried underwater for transfer by rubbing. What medium was used to make the drawings might be a clue to how it was done. Again I'm just brainstorming here--don't know much about this site, though I seem to recall skimming a National Geographic article on it a few months ago (if I'm thinking of the same site).

15 posted on 03/20/2006 10:35:12 PM PST by Fedora
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To: blam

Interesting but I find some of their conclusions a little far fetched. Guess when you need grant money coming up with a theory of possible cancer treatments helps.


16 posted on 03/21/2006 12:05:15 AM PST by Dustbunny (Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers)
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To: Nathan Zachary

Dude, are you going to every posting on FR that mentions
the existence of something older than 6000 years just to whine about it or just the postings i go to?

Cant you just accept that there are people that disagree with you and leave it by that? I don't see you going to Mosks and preech there, so don't do it here. People here that don't share you worldvision shouldn't suffer just because you know we won't kill you for it.


17 posted on 03/21/2006 4:32:35 AM PST by S0122017
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To: blam

Cancer curing is mentioned three times in this article. Sounds like a pitch for funding to me.


18 posted on 03/21/2006 6:19:59 AM PST by Graymatter
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To: detsaoT

Allow me to translate "threatened by development." It really means, I've seen and enjoyed it, but no one else should.


19 posted on 03/21/2006 6:26:13 AM PST by 3AngelaD
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To: blam

Enviros always claim that some newly found species of plant or animal life, like the blind shrimp or bacteria found in these caves "may contain the cure for cancer."

The 'cure for cancer' sthtick was repeated several times in this article alone.

Yes, but why couldn't it also contain a particularly virulent form of virus?

Why would blind shrimp in a fresh water cave suffer from cancer and develop antibodies against it?


20 posted on 03/21/2006 6:32:06 AM PST by wildbill
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