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So as we stand today, the claim that 30 minutes of secondhand smoke exposure increases heart attack risk among nonsmokers is a conservative one. Now we're down to 20 minutes. Does any anti-smoking group care to go for 10 minutes? Anybody? Anybody?

Pretty soon, no reliable research is going to be believe just because of these unethical groups spewing forth lies and misinformation.  Pretty sad, IMHO.

1 posted on 03/19/2006 8:47:15 AM PST by SheLion
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To: The Foolkiller; Just another Joe; Madame Dufarge; Cantiloper; metesky; kattracks; Judith Anne; ...

2 posted on 03/19/2006 8:47:42 AM PST by SheLion (Trying to make a life in the BLUE state of Maine!)
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To: SheLion
Actually the greatest reason making outlandish claims about the harm a substance does is that it diverts resources from other areas where they might be put to better use.

If every dime sent to propagate the lies of the tobacco control people had been spent doing basic cancer research instead, who knows what might have resulted?

Causes might be moot, for there might be a cure.

Instead, treasure greater than the net worth of small notions is pi$$ed away in drives for ever increasingly encroaching legislation, regardless of whether the point of diminishing returen was passed long ago or not.

We all get ripped off, smoker and non smoker alike when fundamental liberties are taken away by an increasingly intrusive government, but that sting is intensified when this is done under false pretenses.

Sadly, under it all, it is not about tobacco, but control. The methodology learned in this venue will be readily applied in others.

4 posted on 03/19/2006 8:55:56 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: SheLion

I've smoked them all my life, and I aint dead yet...


5 posted on 03/19/2006 8:56:13 AM PST by babygene (Viable after 87 trimesters)
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To: SheLion

Inhalation toxicologists have shown that 2nd hand smoke does not cause heart attacks and/or cancer period. This is just more hype from the same types that push global warming.


6 posted on 03/19/2006 8:58:05 AM PST by Mogollon
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To: SheLion

Limbaugh always speaks of a WHO study on second hand smoke. Rush claimed it found no conclusive evidence about second hand smoke dangers or something to that effect.


7 posted on 03/19/2006 8:59:09 AM PST by satchmodog9 (Most people stand on the tracks and never even hear the train coming)
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To: SheLion

This sounds a lot like the, "It's not the nature of the evidence, but the seriousness of the charge that matters," that the left uses.

And some Freepers agree with it. Sad.


8 posted on 03/19/2006 9:00:40 AM PST by RandallFlagg (Roll your own cigarettes! You'll save $$$ and smoke less!(Magnetic bumper stickers-click my name)
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To: SheLion

bump for later


9 posted on 03/19/2006 9:02:04 AM PST by lesser_satan
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To: SheLion

There is no use since everyone knows that tobacco kills. Thing is, it's a scientific fact, a 100% certainty, that if you even TOUCH a smoker, you will die.


12 posted on 03/19/2006 9:11:11 AM PST by SouthTexas (There's a hot time in Gay Paris tonight.)
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To: SheLion
This goes well beyond anti-tobacco statistics and research; it's spreads across the spectrum of issues. Perhaps the concept of telling the truth should be taught in preschool

Statistics are marvelous things and if you need something to support any theory, you can design a statistical model to support it.

The other problem is the gullibility of people and the reticence to question.

(by the way, I just found out that 98% of mass murderers drank milk as children. What's that tell you?)
15 posted on 03/19/2006 9:14:40 AM PST by Free_SJersey (South Jersey-the secret state)
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To: SheLion
OK I am not a health researcher but I really cannot figure this one out.

I was born in 1956, so I grew up in the era of smoking smoking everywhere.

Compared to now, there are fewer people smoking and our environment is cleaner than ever.

I know there is an increase in asthma in children, maybe there is another factor in this disease other than environmental/smoking.

My $.02, I do not smoke but is just another example of the libs trying to suck the fun out of life.
19 posted on 03/19/2006 9:20:17 AM PST by Kimmers
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To: SheLion

This is my standard response to leftists. The major damage caused by their irrationality is that they are making all data suspect. They are no longer "liberal" which is an honorable if misguided position. The democrat party is run by leftist anarchists. (The foundation of Western Society is the scientific method. A juvenile anarchist would attack a building - the current crop of leftists attack the foundation of all buildings.)

Not only can't they have a rational discussion - they are affecting the ability of others to do so.

When I read information now, I find myself looking at the author block first. If it looks suspect - I don't even read it - or I treat it as propaganda.

Note that "suspect" category now includes almost all universities, government agencies - especially international ones - NGOs and leftist feel good groups etc.

The MSM has lost basically all credibility in my eyes -

The politicization of science is a huge crime.


21 posted on 03/19/2006 9:20:33 AM PST by Mr. Rational
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To: SheLion; ShadowAce
This didn't receive much attention when it was posted:

Middle-class peeves cost more money than exists

But, people should look at it and spend some time reading the rather lengthy source link.

The Register (UK)

72 posted on 03/19/2006 3:13:28 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: SheLion
With Moonbats its good intentions that count not truth..
There is not a small amount of conservative Moonbats out there/here..

Did you hear about the Moonbats(MaDD) driving the police to go to bars to arrest drunk drivers before they drive?.. All with the best good intentions you see..

"WOT A COUNTRY"- yacob pavlov..

73 posted on 03/19/2006 3:16:00 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: SheLion
ETHICS?!! Just what the heck does ethics have to do with this crowd?
93 posted on 03/19/2006 6:01:42 PM PST by uglybiker (Don't blame me. I didn't make you stupid.)
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To: SheLion
Also, today:

The Center for Science in the Interest of People who don't Know any better declared that driving a car SIGNIFICANTLY increases a person's chances of being in a car accident. Also, swimming in the ocean shows SUBSTANTIAL increase in the likelihood of being attacked by a shark.

102 posted on 03/19/2006 7:15:07 PM PST by cincinnati65 (Go Panthers!.......)
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To: albertp; Allosaurs_r_us; Abram; AlexandriaDuke; Americanwolf; Annie03; Baby Bear; bassmaner; ...
there is something far more serious out there that is a danger to all living human beings.History books ! Think about all the normal happy healthy children that read history books in the mid 1800s they are all dead now!Most of the people that read history books in 1900-1910 are almost all dead and the ones that are still alive are very sickly.So thats in and of itself is proof that even if you somehow survive reading a history book it will have a dramatic effect on your health and well being over time.Sure it takes several decades before reading history books finally kills you but thats why we must act now before all the children that are in school now (who by theway are being forced to read history books by the government no less) are ravaged by the deadly effects of reading them.Besides what could possible happen to a large number of people that dont rember history.

Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here

104 posted on 03/19/2006 7:32:58 PM PST by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: SheLion
This appears to be the case with the 20 minute and 30 minute fiascos.

Here's a link to the study where they get those numbers

Acute Effects of Passive Smoking on the Coronary Circulation in Healthy Young Adults

The conclusion is junk science at it's best

The jest of the study is they injected the participates (Smokers and Nonsmokers) with ATP (which is what you body uses for energy, so essentially it's speed) and measured 4 things, Heart rate, blood pressure, basal coronary flow velocity and Coronary flow velocity reserve (CFVR).

Then later they put them in a room full of second hand smoke for a half hour and then injected them again with the ATP and remeasured the 4 things.

Of those 4 things, 3 of them were EXACTLY the same. One of them the CFVR on average (meaning lots of overlap) in the nonsmokers decreased by only 5% (3.6 to 3.4 - The higher the # the better). There was no change in the smokers.

And this somehow was suppose to prove what exactly I don't know

To put that 5% in perspective, when a similar study was done on caffeine, in that study just one cup of coffee reduces CFVR by 43% (2.3 to 1.3 - They used different units)

So...

One cup of coffee - 43%
Second Hand smoke - 5%

So drinking one cup of coffee is 8.6 times more deadly than being in a room filled with SHS

Another thing to note about this so called "study", the smokers in it were much more healther to begin with.

Their baseline CPVH was 4.4 vs the 3.6 in the nonsmokers,

in which,


1) the difference between the two groups is greater than the "significant change" that occured in the study

and

2) methinks in their selection process they delibertly selected less healthly (i.e. overweight couch potatoes) non-smokers in order to attempt get a bigger response.  

Also, unlike what the antis are claiming, there's no evidence in this study to suggest the effects are cumlative (i.e. 1 hour would increase it by 10%, 1½ hours - 15%, 2 hours - 20%, etc)

The sad part is, if this study was on anything else but SHS and they tried to pass it off they would be laughed at

105 posted on 03/19/2006 8:05:17 PM PST by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: SheLion

The state of California claims that scientists that work for the state have proven that second hand smoke causes breast cancer. This is what the anti smoking law in Calabasas is based on.

Smokers need to take legal action against the state of California if they want to stop this crackpot science from taking their right to smoke nationwide.

If you don't stop this now, tobacco will be added to the CSA and smokers will become criminals.
.


108 posted on 03/19/2006 9:10:51 PM PST by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: SheLion

It's Cheroot Madness, I say.

Seriously, if you asked John Q. Public which is more of a nuisance, tobacco smoke or barbecue smoke, guess what you'd get as an answer 90% of the time.


129 posted on 03/22/2006 4:37:15 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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