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To: HKMk23

"Back in the early 1980's there was a ceremony in Oakland, CA that made the Evening News that centered around adding a missing apostrophe to the "Childrens Hospital" sign on the outside of the building. I don't know when the place was built, but all of the signage had been in error until that day. It is now, properly, "Children's Hospital".

IF you were to use a comma, then Children's is definitely the proper placement. However, I think of "Childrens" in this case as an adjective, not a possessive. Not meaning to be contrary here, mind you. This is just some of the "fun" I have every day. Where I work, we have Founders Day (no apostrophe) and Parents' Day. I've tried to point out the inconsistency but...


82 posted on 03/20/2006 7:09:44 PM PST by Gone GF
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To: Gone GF
F you were to use a comma, then Children's is definitely the proper placement. However, I think of "Childrens" in this case as an adjective, not a possessive.

Well, since you had me scratching my head, I did some research and here's what I found:

"Children Hospital" could be an adjectival phrase, but "childrens" is nonsense because, without the apostrophe, the "s" would be indicative of a plural and "children" is plural already. So, the name is most correct as "Children's Hospital"; conveying the idea that children should be free to think of the place as theirs in the same way they speak of so many things that they do not actually own as theirs: my street, my room, my house.

Here was one of the more humorous blog entries on a hospital for children in Los Angeles:
http://www.aaronlogan.com/blog/archives/2004/01/

85 posted on 03/21/2006 2:42:00 AM PST by HKMk23 (We keep you alive to serve this ship. Row well, and live.)
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To: Gone GF

...and just to be excruciatingly complete about it, there's THIS excerpt from an on-line style guide (http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/pubs/docs/mr/MR041/SG-f0117.htm):

• A noun, whether singular or plural, that does not end in a sibilant (s or z sound) forms the possessive by adding `s.

women's programs
Jack's dog

...

• Do not use an apostrophe after the name of a country, organization, or other group ending in s when actual possession or ownership is not implied.

United Nations conference
Ministry of Forests style guide
editors handbook
childrens hospital

____

So, one ought not render "editors' handbook" or "childrens' hospital" if ownership or possession is not implied. I would add that this rule would be obviated where the organization or group rendered their names properly in the first place: editor's guide; children's hospital.

At least, there's my 2.718282 cents along with that of a few others. At least it's nice to see that there are still people around who care to be precise about the use of language. "Getting it right" in English has become so abysmally underrated these last forty years.


86 posted on 03/21/2006 3:14:11 AM PST by HKMk23 (We keep you alive to serve this ship. Row well, and live.)
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To: Gone GF; HKMk23; SlowBoat407; jan in Colorado
Where I work, we have Founders Day (no apostrophe) and Parents' Day. I've tried to point out the inconsistency but...

With "Founders Day," it's an adjective. With "Parents' Day," it's a possessive. This makes sense, as the day is because of the founders, but for parents.

However, the word "children" is already a plural, so saying "Childrens Hospital" would be akin to saying "Founderss Day"...it's not the correct adjectival form.

And now that I have written my first two paragraphs... I see that HKMk23 has basically already said the same things I did. :-)

I applaud the attempt to encourage FReepers to check their signs more carefully. There are websites that poke fun at signs held by conservatives, and though we all make mistakes, it would be good to minimize it. Self-improvement is one thing that separates us from the Lefties...when faced with criticism, Lefties tend(ed) to be the ones to reply with excuses or defensive counter-attacks. It saddens me if we are to go that path.

And yes, I do use lots of ellipses and start sentences--even paragraphs--with conjunctions! ;-)


ObPunctuation: "This is dedicated to my parents, Jesus and Mary." --Thomas Eleri
"Just say YES to Oxford commas!" --Gondring

92 posted on 03/21/2006 5:03:52 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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