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Where are the moderate Muslims?
The Star (Chicago suburban) ^ | 03/12/2006 | MIchael Bowers , Star Columnist

Posted on 03/12/2006 9:41:54 AM PST by KeyLargo

Where are the moderate Muslims?

Sunday, March 12, 2006

Once I read that the number of Germans directly involved in the Holocaust — giving orders in Berlin, building the infrastructure of the death camps, rounding up victims, piloting trains, releasing the gas, hunting down escapees and so forth — was 100,000.

In 1939 the population of the Reich was 80 million, so slightly more than one-tenth of 1 percent of the Germans were actually involved in murdering Jews.

Yet, somehow, I never see anyone trying to clear the German volk of the guilt of the crimes of Hitler's "tiny extremist minority." No, the verdict of history is that all Germans share the burden, because all Germans let it happen.

Today, many progressives in the Western world try to explain away crimes committed in the name of Islam. A Google search for the apologetic phrase "tiny extremist minority" turns up 252,000 results. Why is not the passive Muslim majority held to the same standard as the passive German majority?

And just how tiny is this "tiny" minority anyway?

Let's look at what some of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims believe.

In 2003, Nawaf Obaid, a Saudi national security consultant, surveyed 15,000 Saudis. Nearly 50 percent supported Osama bin Laden. Last July the Pew Research Center found that 51 percent of its sample of Pakistanis place confidence in Osama, and 60 percent of Jordanians support him. Is 60 percent a tiny minority?

The Pew Center also found that in Lebanon, support for suicide bombing in defense of Islam is 39 percent of its sample, and in Jordan it's 57 percent. Is 57 percent a tiny minority?

In October 2003, the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah found that 75 percent of Palestinians in its sample supported the bombing of the Maxim restaurant in Haifa that killed 23 people, mostly Jews. Is 75 percent a tiny minority?

The London Telegraph reported in February that its ICM poll showed 40 percent of British Muslims in its sample favor applying sharia law in predominantly Muslim areas of the country. Is 40 percent a tiny minority?

In Turkey last year, a publisher issued a new $3.50 edition of "Mein Kampf." Previous editions cost $7. In the first quarter alone, the book sold more than 50,000 copies and reached the best-seller list drawn up by the D&R bookstore chain. Does a No. 5 book represent a tiny minority?

According to the Pew Center, large majorities of Muslims strongly dislike Jews in nations such as Morocco, Indonesia, Pakistan and Turkey. But it's hard to top Lebanon and Jordan, where the unfavorable rate is 99 percent. Who knew 99 percent could be a tiny minority?

A poll carried out by the London Guardian last year said 13 percent of British Muslims in the sample would support another 9-11-style attack on the United States. Another 15 percent were not sure. I wonder: Were these 15 percent really not sure, or did they simply choose to disguise their true feelings from a pollster?

The Muslim Council said the poll showed that the "overwhelming majority" of British Muslims "abhor" terrorism. That would be 72 percent opposing another 9-11, vs. 28 percent willing to consider it. There are more than 1.5 million Muslims in Britain, so 28 percent translates to 420,000 people who might be pleased to see more Americans leap out of blazing towers or definitely would be pleased to see more Americans leap out of blazing towers. I am not reassured.

A YouGov survey carried out for the London Daily Telegraph last July showed that 6 percent of British Muslims in the sample believe the 7-7 bombings were fully justified. Six percent is indeed a minority, but it's not quite a tiny one, and it's still 90,000 people, if the sample is translated to the entire target population.

Another 56 percent of British Muslims in the sample said they can understand why the bombers acted. Eighteen percent feel little or no loyalty to their country. Thirty-two percent believe "Western society is decadent and immoral" and "Muslims should seek to bring it to an end."

Seventy-three percent say they would inform the police if they knew something about a planned terrorist attack. This sounds nice, doesn't it? That "overwhelming majority" again. Until you realize it means that 27 percent of British Muslims would not inform the police of an imminent attack.

Last October a university in the conservative Turkish city of Diyarbakir released a survey on honor killings. It showed that 37 percent of the men and women in its sample believe that if a woman cheats on her husband, she should be killed. Another 21 percent would spare her life and just cut off her nose or ears.

The United Nations says there are 5,000 honor killings every year in the Muslim world. The London Guardian reported in November 2004 on a survey conducted by the Egyptian government that found that one in three women has been beaten by her husband. Eighty-six percent of the women in the sample regarded this as normal.

A large majority of women believe that refusal to have sex with their husband is grounds for a beating. In the survey reported in the London Guardian, 26 percent of women in their 20s responded they believe they deserve a beating if they burn dinner. Forty-two percent believe they deserve a beating if they spend too much money. Sixty-five percent believe they deserve a beating if they talk to another man.

I find these numbers frightening. Well-armed with facts and logic, you might be able to convince me that the "tiny extremist minority" of Islam is indeed a "minority," strictly speaking. But a "tiny" minority? I'm afraid I just don't buy it.

Send email to mbowers@starnewspapers.com.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; US: Illinois; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: moderateislam; moderateterrorists; muslim; terrorism
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The good news about the Muslim cartoon riots

Wed Mar 8, 7:09 PM ET

Now how many people have been slaughtered along with buildings and cars torched because hundreds of thousands Muslims object to a few non-Muslims in a secular country exercising their right of free speech?

It is hard to keep count. We may need to set up a macabre pari-mutual accounting board that totals the people killed year to date because Islamic guys wake up grouchy.

How much has the cause of freedom and democracy been set back? A very long way.

The American press unanimously and pusillanimously decided not to reprint the cartoons.

That sweeping decision to run up the white flag proves that there is a gutless press oligopoly in this nation and that is not good for any of us.

However, there is a bright side to all of this believe it or not.

Neither my Dictionary of Quotations nor Google tell me who said this, but there is a succinct quote that applies to this situation:

"History is the recordation of the race between education and catastrophe."

In this case, catastrophe for us is to know too little about the Muslim religion. Many nations have learned to their sorrow what it means to have a large group of Muslims as their neighbors, immigrants, or conquerors.

There are endless publications attempting to warn the American people that the Muslim religion is unlike any other religion or philosophy in the world (see: "The West's Last Chance" by Tony Blankley).

But none of those writings could have made the point as vividly as has the Muslim reaction to the cartoons. Millions more now understand that the Muslim position is that things should be their way or no way.

Every other religion or philosophy of which I am aware: Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Confucianism, Sikh, even Shinto, attempt to inculcate into their adherents an internal scheme of socializing principles designed to overcome their "sinful" impulses with "saintly" conduct. Such internal policing also makes them better neighbors.

It is true that there is a long gruesome history of groups subscribing to religion getting hijacked into wars when the economics of the situation happen to coincide with religious affiliations.

The Irish Catholic-Protestant conflict sadly comes to mind.

But all such wars are in direct conflict with the express tenets of their religion.

Not so with the Muslims. While the Muslim religion does inculcate a strong element of self-control (the internal Jihad), there the similarity ends.

The Muslim religion is now and, ever since a few years after its founding in Saudi Arabia, has been a warrior religion just like the Spartans of ancient Greece (see: "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" by Gibbons).

Ever since about 550 A.D., Muslim armies have been on the march, plundering nation after nation, flourishing not as much by their own creativity or hard work but by harnessing the talent and resources of those they militarily subjugate.

The Christian Bible abjures its adherents to: not murder; turn the other cheek; love your neighbor; and to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

The Koran (Qu'ran) says:

Surah 8.65 "Oh Prophet! Exhort believers to fight."

Surah 62.6-7 "Oh ye Jews, if claim that Allah favors you over all mankind, then long for death ..."

Surah 5.51 "Take not Jews and Christians as your friends."

Surah 2.191 "Slay the aggressors (people who defend themselves) wherever you find them" (including the Olympics).

Surah 4.91 ... Then take them and kill them wherever you find them. Against such we have been given a clear warrant."

Surah 2.216 "Warfare is ordained for you."

Surah 3.151 "We shall cast terror in the hearts of those who disbelieve."

Surah 4.56 "Disbelievers we shall expose to the fire."

Surah 17.16-17 "We annihilate townships who disobey the commandments. We have destroyed many generations. We annihilate with complete annihilation."

Non-Muslims ignore the plain language of the Koran and the murderous conduct of so many that believe that it is the literal word of god at our peril.

The Koran is a blueprint for the domination of the Earth by a Muslim population that now numbers about 1.5 billion around the globe.

Living off of oil money sent to the Saudis, they are exporting murderous extremism throughout the rest of the world.

The optimists among us are attempting to split the Muslims between the extremists and the "moderates."

"Moderate Muslim" seems to be an oxymoron on which we should not base the future of our culture.

Author Victor Davis Hanson has written, "A War Like No Other," which chronicles the decades-long death struggle between the democratic, civilized, and wealthy Athenians vs. the unprosperous though warlike Spartans; a parallel to the present conflict between the Islamacists and the west.

Guess who won that war?

Stirling is a retired superior court judge who now practices law with the firm of Garrison & McInnis. He is a former Army officer, member of the San Diego City Council, the California State Assembly and the State Senate. Send comments to larry.stirling@sddt.com. Comments may be published as letters to the Editor.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/sddt/20060309/lo_sddt/thegoodnewsaboutthemuslimcartoonriots

1 posted on 03/12/2006 9:41:56 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

On another planet. Far, far away.

As for the trojan horses, they are aplenty.


2 posted on 03/12/2006 9:47:02 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: KeyLargo
The same place as that 100 mpg carburetor.
3 posted on 03/12/2006 9:49:57 AM PST by 359Henrie (NASA needs one more moon rock, its in Mecca.)
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To: KeyLargo
Where are your search skills?
4 posted on 03/12/2006 9:52:17 AM PST by xrp (Fox News Channel: MISSING WHITE GIRL NETWORK)
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To: KeyLargo

In the UAE who we just punished!

Pray for W and Our Heroic Troops


5 posted on 03/12/2006 9:52:52 AM PST by bray (Proud Bushbot for 6 years going on 8!)
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To: KeyLargo; sure_fine; beyond the sea

There are none of any consequence.


6 posted on 03/12/2006 9:55:39 AM PST by butternut_squash_bisque (Borders, Language, Cultureā„¢)
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To: KeyLargo

Asking "Where are the moderate Muslims? is as nonsensical as asking "Where are the holy Mafiosi?"


7 posted on 03/12/2006 9:57:32 AM PST by MIchaelTArchangel
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To: KeyLargo
Where are the moderate Muslims?

In the mosque, plotting?

8 posted on 03/12/2006 9:57:57 AM PST by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: KeyLargo

If someone is getting the hell kicked out of them and they die and you do nothing to stop it you are complicit.
I think the percentages are way off as to how many germans killed jews nevertheless many many many more knew and did nothing.


9 posted on 03/12/2006 9:57:59 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: KeyLargo
The culture of islam is a sick cult that glorifies murder and violence.

Muslims will not change until they experience a catastrophe that is the result of their own actions. Japanese and Germans of today are different because they were beaten in to submission in World War II.

Sooner or later they will cross the line and the world will stop coddling them. Sooner or later they will use a nuclear device to blow up a western city, and that will be the beginning of the end for them.
10 posted on 03/12/2006 10:02:43 AM PST by dinok
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To: mylife
Shortest book in the world:

Great Moderate Muslims.

11 posted on 03/12/2006 10:04:26 AM PST by dinok
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To: KeyLargo

I can tell you what my father, who spent 4 years fighting in Europe, and who related his first-hand accounts of 'everyday' Germans they met when they liberated two concentration camps.

The everyday Germans, in his opinion, would have had no problem if Hitler had managed to win the war. Germany Uber Alles was something most Germans thought their due. Much like the ' Islam must dominate' declarations we hear now. The goal of the Nazis, and the goal of Islam, is the same.
'Good', non-Nazi Germans lived within smelling and visual disatnce of the camps my father entered. They denied knowing what was going on there, even tho you could smell burning human flesh for miles.
The nearby townspeople were collected and made to not only go into the camps, but to help bury the dead.
The 'good' Germans, like the 'good' Muslims agreed with what Nazism wanted. Domination and obedience. Superiority. They might not have been willing to risk their necks for it, but they were fully prepared to enjoy being the conquerors.


12 posted on 03/12/2006 10:12:04 AM PST by ClearBlueSky (Whenever someone says it's not about Islam-it's about Islam. Jesus loves you, Allah wants you dead!)
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To: bray
"In the UAE who we just punished!"

It's no problem...the liberals will kiss their behinds after they win the '08 election that the hothead Republicans just handed to them.

Oh and the D's will get the credit for settling the ME conflict too..not the R's. Great job people. WAY to go.

We had a shot to prove to the world that the party had a brain and stay in power for a long long time and you blew it!

The "nuke em all" wackos had better get busy with some serious damage control...don't ask me to help you clean up this mess.

I'm sure General Franks must be shaking his head in disbelief.

13 posted on 03/12/2006 10:27:19 AM PST by Earthdweller
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To: KeyLargo

what the heck is a "moderate" Muslim ?
someone who kills ya with a means other than beheading?


14 posted on 03/12/2006 10:41:46 AM PST by stylin19a (Do you still have sex or are you already playing golf?)
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To: butternut_squash_bisque

The Moderates Muslims are playing cards with Bigfoot while the Loch ness Monster makes the Sandwiches.


15 posted on 03/12/2006 10:43:29 AM PST by Yorlik803 ( A moose once bit my sister.Mind you, an moose bite can be pretty nasty)
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To: dinok

they explode a Nuke, it could be the end for everyone.


16 posted on 03/12/2006 10:45:18 AM PST by Yorlik803 ( A moose once bit my sister.Mind you, an moose bite can be pretty nasty)
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To: Earthdweller

You can't blame the Dems, that is what they are. We have to blame the Repubs and one issue Demagogues like Hannity for this anti-business reactionism.

They did not even allow us 45 days to research and educate before they took their sledge hammers to the UAE. Then go to our gutless Repub Congressmen who bend like bamboo in a hurricane to act like little schoolgirls. Now both parties are anti-business!

Pray for W and Our Heroic Troops


17 posted on 03/12/2006 10:46:46 AM PST by bray (Proud Bushbot for 6 years going on 8!)
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To: stylin19a; Yorlik803; sure_fine; beyond the sea

Islamists want to kill you; muslims just want us dead.


18 posted on 03/12/2006 10:59:21 AM PST by butternut_squash_bisque (Borders, Language, Cultureā„¢)
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To: Joe Boucher

"I think the percentages are way off as to how many germans killed jews nevertheless many many many more knew and did nothing."

Most germans did not know about it, or considered it enemy propaganda. Hitler controlled the press and radio.


19 posted on 03/12/2006 11:09:50 AM PST by observer5 ("Better violate the rights of a few, than of all!)
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To: KeyLargo

Where are the moderate Muslims?

With the moderate Nazis?


20 posted on 03/12/2006 11:10:51 AM PST by Lexington Green ("Ho-ka hey! It is a good day to fight! It is a good day to die!)
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