Virginia County secretly removes Confederate flag from official seal

The Daily Press, Hampton Roads, VA ^ | March 2, 2006 | Associated Press

[Rebeleye]

The removal of the Confederate flag from Amherst County's official seal has upset Southern heritage groups, who contend residents weren't told of the change. County officials acknowledge the image was quietly removed in August 2004 to avoid an uproar.

[A Jovial Cad]

"Moronite"

Sounds about right, M.Espinola. Just drop the "ite" and you have the definition of a typical member of the Lost Cause Squad precisely.

Jeeze Louise, Stand...you've outdone yourself again. As Ike* once famously said: "in his case, there seems to be no answer to the question, How dumb can you get?"

That question remains unanswered here, but I look forward to further updates...

*I know, I know: you probably despise Eisenhower because he was an American President in the hated Union you southrons all wish you were rid of. And he lived in Gettysburg for many years before he passed! How's that for your anti-southron commie conspiracy! What a piker that Ike was...probably won't be long before you're claiming he was a crack addict, even though crack didn't hit the streets until nearly twenty years after he died--similar to your bogus claims regarding Grant. You'll just have to bear with the patriotic foibles of those of us who love the United States of America, and are proud of our unified country. It's a cross you southrons have to bear, I know: facing off against people in these threads who are actually proud of the Stars & Stripes, and all it represents. Please be brave in the face of such as us! I know we test your patience with our love of this land we call America...

[Heyworth]

You don't seem to understand that watie is standing up to you alone

No, Watie is trying to associate himself with other southern partisans who, even if I don't agree with them, do a creditable job of making coherent arguments, and backing them up with verifiable evidence. Watie makes a mockery of them and their positions.

[A Jovial Cad]

You are nothing more than that. Toothless professors of a newborn faith

We are Americans. Many of us, myself included, had ancestors who fought on both sides of that tragic conflict known as The Civil War. There is a complexity that envelops the analysis of the origins, causes, and ultimate denouement of that saddest of American Wars--but buddy, let me tell you this:

The South is a part of this country, and both the "Union" that defeated it and the South that fought to leave it are better off for it. When I was in the Air Force serving my country--something I doubt you've ever deigned to do--the guys who'd get the most choked up when the "Star-spangled banner" played on Veterans Day were Southerners. They'd accepted that they were fully integrated members of the United States--and were damn proud of it. If the Cold War had ever turned Hot there in Europe (where I served), we'd have all gone into battle against the Warsaw Pact as Americans.

Not Southerners. Not "Yankees." Neither Lincolnites nor Stonewall Jackson fans but simply A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N-S.

The Civil War has been over for a long, long, long time. It is possible to debate the merits of the causes and results of that war without disparaging what came of it, namely a country I am proud to have been born in, served with my time in its military, and live in right now as we speak: The United States of America. And man-oh-man am I ever proud to sound out those words! My country, and I won't apologize for a second that it exists today thanks to the efforts of those whom strived, circa 1861-65, to keep it together.

The fatuousness of those of you who comprise the Lost Cause Squad offend me on a visceral level. I speak only for myself, but I suspect many of the pro-American ("Yankee") posters respond in these threads in the same sense. The facts are largely on "our" side, to be sure, but it goes beyond that, at least for me: when one has served in this country's military, and has a father who served, and a grandfather, and a great-grandfather, and a great-great-grandfather beyond him, it really becomes rather tiresome to hear some crank denigrate such service with a dismissive reference to what Sherman may or may not have done in Georgia (I happen to think he did exactly what he should have done, BTW). It is equally offensive to hear the 16th President of the United States, a Republican, BTW, slandered in the most offensive way, with lies that wouldn't past muster on a third grade recess yard.

I say all this to lay the groundwork for a simple statement: to hell with your assertion that we are "toothless professors" of some "newborn faith," and to hell with you. We are "professors" of nothing more, or less, than the fact that we are Americans. No one in their right mind would claim that this country is, or ever has been in the past, perfect. I certainly do not claim so.

But it is, and long has been, "the last, best hope of earth" (as a great man once noted; guess who?) for some time now.

One can debate the nuances & battles of the Civil War. But one certainly cannot debate that.

Yet, you savants in the Lost Cause Squad give it your best, post after post after post, and thread after thread. This is what drives the well-deserved contempt you folks receive in response, not the petty quibbles about whether Grant was chewing "aspirin" at Cold Harbor.

And you earn the full measure of that contempt, repeatedly.

[M. Espinola]

"It goes without saying that modern education is full of myths and untruths about the settlement of our country."

I agree. The P/C leftist agenda crowd wormed their way into all levels of American education, brazenly since the 1960's.

"Seems to me that modern education is full of myths about the WBTS as well."

Do you mean Stand's ongoing myths? One in particular concerning his statements of "100,000.. or 200,000 Southern blacks fought for (his) "Dixie Republic"?

"...it would be a good idea to apologize to people like sw who have sacraficed a lifetime in the service of country."

If that doesn't take the cake! lol! Stand, the one always saying his "real" "country" is the some invented future "Dixie Republic" and has added anyone living in the South not in agreement will be forced out, especially "dammyankees" & "traitors to Dixie".

Are you in agreement with Stand? If so, you should apologize to everyone in here for supporting his lunacy about ripping America in two, instead of focusing on defeating the Islamic terrorist enemy who cares less which state Americans reside, as long as all of US are butchered by those psychotic savages.

In terms of the history of the American Civil War you asked, "tell me who in the North went to war to end slavery"..

For starters anyone in abolitionist societies either in the North or South who favoured ending the national stain of slavery on the very soul of America. People involved in the "Underground Railroad". Clergymen apposed to slavery served the troops spiritual needs. Also, men such as Col. Robert Gould Shaw & the Mass 54th.

Once they were allowed to fight for freedom & abolish slavery more than 186,000 blacks voluntarily served in the U.S. military during the Civil War. These men constituted 10 percent of the total Union Army force and 25 percent of the U.S. Navy strength. Another 200,000 served in various support capacities for the North.

29th Regiment from Connecticut at Beaufort, S.C., 1864.

By the time the Confederate insurrection was defeated, seventeen black soldiers and four black sailors were awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. Or does that count for you?

On the other hand in 1863 the self appointed "Confederate Congress" threatened to severely punish all white officers in command of black Union troops, and to enslave black Union soldiers immediately, if they were not murdered outright if captured.

So much for armed slaves willingly "fighting for" Dixie's politicians instigated armed rebellion against their own country.

Here is a prime example of slaves fighting for their own freedom, plus that of other Confederate slaves:

--------------------

"In 1862 Robert Smalls, a 23-year-old mulatto slave, was employed by Confederates in Charleston, S.C. as pilot of Planter, area commander General Roswell Ripley’s transport steamer.

"In the early morning hours of May 13 the ship was loaded with armaments for the rebel forts. Contrary to regulations the white captain and crew were ashore for the night.";

"At about 3 a.m. Smalls commandeered the 147-foot vessel from a dock fronting General Ripley’s home and office. Smalls and his crew sailed to a nearby dock, collected family members from another ship and headed toward sea. Aboard Planter during its dash to the Union blockading squadron were Smalls’ wife, children and 12 other slaves."

"Smalls donned the captain’s broad-brimmed straw hat and assumed the captain’s typical stance - arms akimbo - in the pilot house. As he passed each rebel fort he gave the correct whistle signal and was allowed to pass. Onward, the nearest Union blockading vessel, was preparing to fire on the approaching ship when Smalls raised a white flag and surrendered."

"Union press hailed Smalls as a national hero, calling the ship “the first trophy from Fort Sumter.” "A Congressional bill signed by President Lincoln awarded prize money to Smalls and his associates."

"In August 1862 two Union generals sent Smalls and missionary Mansfield French to meet with Secretary of War Stanton and President Lincoln. Their request to recruit 5000 black troops was soon granted." "In October, 1862 during a speaking tour of New York to raise support for the Union cause Smalls was presented an engraved gold medal by “the colored citizens of New York” for his heroism, love of liberty and patriotism." source

--------------------

It is ironic that many Southerners, while not slave holders themselves, consented to fight to preserve or maintain what would be a slave-holding dictatorship if the Confederate's cotton based slaveocracy had been successful in destroying the United States and then would have expanded slavery westward.

There are also many clear examples of Southerners in various Southern states remaining loyal American citizens and fighting those attempting to destroy the U.S. as a nation, which would have left the U.S. vulnerable to aggressive European powers. Slavery Inc., didn't give a damn - did they?

For the record, Jefferson Davis’ own slaves eavesdropped on his treasonous meetings--and passed information to American Army agents.

If what you so defend was so bloody well wonderful, why did hundreds of thousands of Black Americans flee the post-Civil War Jim Crow South?

[M. Espinola]

"Not Southerners. Not "Yankees." Neither Lincolnites nor Stonewall Jackson fans but simply A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N-S."

Well stated!

I wonder if the minority of Lost Cause malcontents would rather live in another country? Not on some extended vacation either. As in take a hike and leave the American passport with U.S. Customs - forever!

[Non-Sequitur]

You don't seem to understand that watie is standing up to you alone and you find yourselves in some self-righteous mode as two third graders ganging up on the third. I have to admire sw and not admire you very much.

Stand waite is posting, and reposting, and posting yet again claims that are without a single basis in fact. Complete and utter lies. Total bullshit. However you want to phrase it. If you want to do him a favor and shut the rest of us up them help him out by providing some evidence that supports his claims. Until then jumping on the liar's bandwagon and offering him support does you no great credit.

When you guys can quit spouting about how noble the North was and how ignoble the South was and tell me who in the North went to war to end slavery, I'll start to listen.

When you can point out the last time any of us said that the U.S. pursued the war that the south forced on them solely to end slavery thtn I'll start listening to you, too. Until then you're just spreading the same kind of nonsense that waite is.

When you choose to understand the war it would be a good idea to apologize to people like sw who have sacraficed a lifetime in the service of country.

I believe it was Heyworth, or maybe M. Espinola, who had compiled stand waite's resume based on his past claims. Perhaps they can repost it. According to that, stand has given several lifetimes of service to the country.

[Non-Sequitur]

'course a southern man isn't afraid to stand up for his beliefs and that's to be admired.

Except that stand waite sticks to his lies. What's admirable about that? If I claimed that Robert Lee was a lifelong pedophile, referencing non-existent sources as proof, and sticking to the claim in the face of all evidence to the contrary, then would you call me admirable?

[stand watie]

thank you. the members of "the DAMNyankee coven" on FR of lunatics, weirdos,1/2-wits,loudmouths,BIGOTS,HATERS & REVISIONISTS are PITIFUL.

but,as i've said before, "they know NOT & know NOT that they know NOT".

the only one of them who has a functioning brain AND an education is N-S, The Minister of DAMNyankee Propaganda. (him i respect as an honorable foe AND as a man.)

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

should ANYONE here bother to read your DUMB/hate-FILLED BILGE???

i see no reason for them to, unless they are otherwise "dying of boredom".

PLEASE stop "capitalizing" any portion of my screen-name.

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

to all:

yet another fact-FREE post from one of members of the the DAMNyankee coven of weirdos.

yes, we southerners ARE Americans, but we are also southerners and will fight to the death to defend our families,our homes, our churches,our communities, our states & (if necessary) all enemies, foreign & DOMESTIC, who would attack us, our ancestors or our southern culture.

to mr/ms cad:

your REVISIONIST post drips with HATRED of all us southerners, our separateness, our heroes, our dixie culture & our southern PEOPLE.

frankly, you sound like "screaming johnnie dean", the leader of the DIMocRATS party. he too is a south-HATER.

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

to all:

WOW! i'm impressed!

"mr.SPIN" can actually write more than one sentence w/o me laughing AT him, when he tries to.(or perhaps N-S wrote this post for him)

to "MR. SPIN", i wouldn't laugh AT you so much if you posted less hate-FILLED, terminally ignorant bilge. 99% of what you post is either KNOWINGLY false or so FOOLISH, that a 3 year old child wouldn't believe it.

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

no, but we southerners would like for you south-HATERS to go home to DY-land (the nanny-states), close your mouths about the southland & "tend to your own affairs".

we have enough ignorant,ignorant,self-righteous, loudmouthed louts down here now.

we do NOT need the likes of you.we don't care what (if anything) you think about the southland & her people. we just want you south-HATERS to GO AWAY.

i think the GOOD BOOK says something about "removing the log from your eye, before you point out the splinter in another person's eye".

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

actually, the "fine fellow" who did the cyber-STALKING of me "mysteriously disappearred from FR", after it "was determined" that MOST of his "resume" was INVENTED "out of whole cloth"& FILLED with FALSE comments. (neither of the two members of the DY coven, that you named, have enough BRAINS to do that sort of thing.)

did you forget to take your meds this AM??? while your "stock in trade", as a propagandist for the "unionist cause" is evasions, myth, misstatements & KNOWINGLY FALSE statements, you usually aren't this HATEFUL & RUDE!

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

the only thing i find admirable about you is that you USUALLY aren't as RUDE & are SMARTER than the rest of the "unionist contingent" COMBINED.

i KNOW you cannot admit that my posts are CORRECT. otherwise your carefully constructed "house of cards" about the PERFECTNESS of the unionist "cause" would collapse & the war against the south would be exposed for what it demonstrably was: an IMPERIALIST, (and many people believe,racist) war of a LARGE & EXPANSIONIST country against a much smaller, far less wealthy, agricultural nation.

the TRUTH is that lincoln & his "merry band of thugs" made a UN-necessary war against the CSA for PROFIT & POLITICAL POWER and SAID that they were only interested in "preserving the union". as a result of that war, a MILLION people NEEDLESSLY died. that is the unvarnished TRUTH.

free dixie,sw

[4CJ]

Bump.

[4CJ]

Bump #2.

[4CJ]

And again.

[4CJ]

Bump.

[4CJ]

Bumpus multus.

[4CJ]

Penultimate Bump.