Virginia County secretly removes Confederate flag from official seal

The Daily Press, Hampton Roads, VA ^ | March 2, 2006 | Associated Press

[Rebeleye]

The removal of the Confederate flag from Amherst County's official seal has upset Southern heritage groups, who contend residents weren't told of the change. County officials acknowledge the image was quietly removed in August 2004 to avoid an uproar.

[justshutupandtakeit]

I don't "pick fights" with anyone except maybe stand. But the LIES you spread will not go unrefuted. And there were a bunch in your post.
There was NO tyranny against the South the only TYRANNY was the Slaver system.

I have no intention of forgetting the Confederacy and the destruction caused. Nor while I stand silent while absurd claims are made justifying what it did or what it stood for. Southerners need not defend that absurdity any more than Germans should defend Hitler because it was history.

I am from the South and my family still lives there; AR and GA so I need no education as to the virtues of the region or the people. It is because I love both that I condemn the Slaver leaders and their system which brought a century of ruin and destruction upon them.

[groanup]

The institution of slavery existed all over the world prior to the WBTS. It certainly existed North of the MDL. Your argument is that the North and its leaders were morally superior. That would make the guy who quit beating his wife in March morally superior to the guy who quit beating his wife in April. The North, Lincoln, Seward et al did NOT go to war with the South over slavery. The South did NOT go to war over the abolition of slavery. ONE of the many reasons the South went to war was the issue of expansion of slavery to the west.

But you know all of that.

[Non-Sequitur]

The North, Lincoln, Seward et al did NOT go to war with the South over slavery. The South did NOT go to war over the abolition of slavery.

I believe that you are half right in that statement.

ONE of the many reasons the South went to war was the issue of expansion of slavery to the west.

That's like saying Atlanta is one of many towns in Georgia. Defense of slavery, ensuring it's expansion, was by far the single most important reason for the southern rebellion.

[Gianni]

It is remarkable that defense of the sovereignty of the United States is called "nonsense" by one who would surely claim to be a patriot.

I needn't make any claims. People are free to judge as they wish.

Unfortunately, you can't say where the United States gained or declared it's sovereignty. You can find where the thirteen United States achieved victory in the fight for theirs, by looking back at the posts that I've already made to you.

But like I said... your m.o... wait a couple hundred posts and start in again with all the same misinformation that was shot full of holes.

[Gianni]

He's got spirit, he's got heart, and he loves our armed forces (ref the daily canteen threads), and despises liberals.

A useful ally.

[Gianni]

Who do you think is moving down to your precious southron cesspool?

Unfortunately, liberals are diluting the population everywhere. There is no safe haven, even in Kansas.

[Gianni]

I am waiting for your refutation of the fact that the United States of America was a sovereign nation.

Article 1

His Brittanic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz., New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be free sovereign and independent states, that he treats with them as such, and for himself, his heirs, and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety, and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof.

...

Article 5

It is agreed that Congress shall earnestly recommend it to the legislatures of the respective states to provide for the restitution of all estates, rights, and properties, which have been confiscated belonging to real British subjects; and also of the estates, rights, and properties of persons resident in districts in the possession on his Majesty's arms and who have not borne arms against the said United States. And that persons of any other decription shall have free liberty to go to any part or parts of any of the thirteen United States and therein to remain twelve months unmolested in their endeavors to obtain the restitution of such of their estates, rights, and properties as may have been confiscated; and that Congress shall also earnestly recommend to the several states a reconsideration and revision of all acts or laws regarding the premises, so as to render the said laws or acts perfectly consistent not only with justice and equity but with that spirit of conciliation which on the return of the blessings of peace should universally prevail. And that Congress shall also earnestly recommend to the several states that the estates, rights, and properties, of such last mentioned persons shall be restored to them, they refunding to any persons who may be now in possession the bona fide price (where any has been given) which such persons may have paid on purchasing any of the said lands, rights, or properties since the confiscation. And it is agreed that all persons who have any interest in confiscated lands, either by debts, marriage settlements, or otherwise, shall meet with no lawful impediment in the prosecution of their just rights.

Paris Peace Treaty

The Continental Congress could not dictate anything to the sovereign states, however, you might wish to earnestly recommend to the state ratification conventions that they hand over their sovereignty. See how far that gets you.

[Gianni]

How many invocatios of Godwin's Law do we have now? 6?

[Gianni]

There were NO states until the Congress ordered them be formed. There were only ex-colonies.

Very few posts make me laugh out loud. Thought I would share.

[Gianni]

Southerners need not defend that absurdity any more than Germans should defend Hitler because it was history.

Your simple-minded view of the war is no different that insisting that we're in Iraq fighting for abortion on demand. It's pathetic.

And as for why he jumped all over your post, JSdude1, it's because he's plain rude.

[groanup]

Defense of slavery, ensuring it's expansion, was by far the single most important reason for the southern rebellion.

No. A war as vast and destructive and long lived as that one had many reasons and many animosities. Your statement has two parts. The defense of slavery would have no avail to the South since slavery was permitted by the Constitution and Lincoln had stated his approval of its continuation in order to preserve the union.

The issue of expansion does have teeth. There was a true contention in that issue. The states, at that time, were sovereign (unlike today thanks to Lincoln) and the South would have made the issue of slavery a sister issue with the other rights of newly formed states. "The government had violated its contract with the people."

[justshutupandtakeit]

Yeah George Washington and the Continental Army had nothing to do with beating the British but only in your sick world.

It has been said repeatedly that the sovereignty of the United States comes from the American People. It has been carefully divided between the federal and state governments wherein the former portion controls all national issues and that of the latter controls all local issues as long as their laws conform to the Law of the Land and the Superior law over all. States are as subordinate to the federal government as local government is to state. And states have no more authority to withdraw from the federal Union than counties have to withdraw from the State.

Your pitiful distortions and falsehoods could not more shred any argument I have presented than a shotgun could stop a tank.

[justshutupandtakeit]

And you are mighty welcome to him and all like him. Does he go over on those threads and insult our great Leader Abraham Lincoln to show his "love" of the military?

[justshutupandtakeit]

Take it up with Madison he knows more about it than you and with Hamilton who won one of his greatest legal victories FORCING the State of New York to honor the treaty article forbidding seizure of the property of Tories.

Such a hard choice regarding the nature of Sovereignty left in the states: Madison and Hamilton or General Cornpone's Last Ditch Brigade?

[justshutupandtakeit]

Any analogy or comparision made by me is 100% accurate.

[justshutupandtakeit]

There is nothing very complicated about the RAT Rebellion. A bunch of deluded crackpots attacked the United States in order to keep the Whip and the Lash and dragged their region into a century of unnecessary poverty and degradation.

Today a gaggle of oddballs has taken it on themselves to continue the attack on the Union and the Constitution using a few simple-minded misinterpretations and deliberate distortions of the origin of the United States. Their theories are discredited by all but the oddest of oddballs but are a continuing source of humor for those not afflicted with NeoCondfedeRATia.

[M. Espinola]

"and you can PROVE this ignorant post??? i think NOT!

What particular points are you raving on about? Which portion of those historical facts are "ignorant, bilge & nonsense"? You are unable to respond since you lack the tools to respond in a normal fashion.

It's incredible you are still unable to grasp the established reality of the confederate leadership losing the Civil War, they started - then everything mentioned concerning that period is "ignorant"?.

In relation to facts, all you're able to do is repeatedly demonstrate insane ranting, fabrications, slander, screaming, and warped reinventions of America's history to suit your own concocted, twisted phobias. A truly sad case stuck in a fantasy world of your own slanted creation.

How about speaking of America for a change, not taring the nation to shreds sending her back to 1860. There are enough commie creeps trying to ruin this country.

[M. Espinola]

I posted numerous quotes from various speeches made by "Confederate" leaders, you ignore the facts do not respond since facts are facts, yet chicken out by printing quotes from Old Abe, thinking all of us view Lincoln as some sort of "Union saint".

The bottom line is those you repeatedly and publicly promote, were themselves deeply on a personal level, involved in the slave trade, owned slaves and greatly profited - what's worse triggered the most horrific, domestic civil blood letting this nation has ever witnessed. For what? To protect their [Democrat] slavery empire - and expand it.

On Lincoln, he did make despicable remarks he may have later regretted, but your side not only issued identical speeches but attempted and failed to destroy this nation, yet you continue defending the main economic reason - slavery.

Lincoln had his faults like everyone however in the end did the right thing and was shot from behind by a coward, deranged s.o.b "confederate" traitor & murderer.

Are you going to dare quote the Bible or the Lord to justify the assassination of President Lincoln, they stunt you pulled on justified slavery? It would be very interesting indeed to watch you spouting in the same way in public, like a mall or restaurant while waiting in line.

You should be ashamed, but I suppose it runs in your blood.

[M. Espinola]

"It isn't an issue to me, until America-loathing southron fanatics try to re-write history ala post #1004"

In terms of the Civil War & the South it was history and there, part of the nation. It was not until rather recently after viewing blatant lies printed by dishonest neo-confederate malcontents, with their non-stop reinventing of American's history did I take an interest.

The last thing conservatives and the GOP needs is to be tagged as being linked in any way with this negligible, deceitful, confederated clan of raging neo-confederate crackpots and their printed collections of anti-American slander & subterfuge.

A polygraph machine is warranted

[Non-Sequitur]

The defense of slavery would have no avail to the South since slavery was permitted by the Constitution and Lincoln had stated his approval of its continuation in order to preserve the union.

But the southern leaders were committed to the free expansion of slavery into the territories, and saw any threat to that expansion as a threat to slavery itself. Lincoln was uncompromising in his opposition to the expansion of slavery in any way, shape, or form. He knew that if it was limited to the states where it currently existed then it would eventually die out on its own. The southern leadership would not tolerate what they saw as a threat to the institution itself, so that was their primary reason for the rebellion.

The states, at that time, were sovereign (unlike today thanks to Lincoln) and the South would have made the issue of slavery a sister issue with the other rights of newly formed states. "The government had violated its contract with the people."

But there you run into that same old tired southron line which is 'the states were sovereign' meant only what the southern states wanted it to mean. How can a state be sovereign if it was forbidden to ban slavery, which is what the southern leaders wanted? The southerners wanted the right to move with their slaves wherever they wanted, regardless of the wishes of the people in the states. So they wanted sovereignty when it was convenient to them, and an overpowering central govenment when they found that benificial. Kind of how the Davis regime turned out.