Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Utah House kills evolution bill
Fort Wayne Journal Gazette ^ | 28 February 2006 | JENNIFER DOBNER

Posted on 02/28/2006 4:05:45 AM PST by PatrickHenry

House lawmakers scuttled a bill that would have required public school students to be told that evolution is not empirically proven - the latest setback for critics of evolution.

The bill's sponsor, Republican state Sen. Chris Buttars, had said it was time to rein in teachers who were teaching that man descended from apes and rattling the faith of students. The Senate earlier passed the measure 16-12.

But the bill failed in the House on a 28-46 vote Monday. The bill would have required teachers to tell students that evolution is not a fact and the state doesn't endorse the theory.

Rep. Scott Wyatt, a Republican, said he feared passing the bill would force the state to then address hundreds of other scientific theories - "from Quantum physics to Freud" - in the same manner.

"I would leave you with two questions," Wyatt said. "If we decide to weigh in on this part, are we going to begin weighing in on all the others and are we the correct body to do that?"

Buttars said he didn't believe the defeat means that most House members think Charles Darwin's theory of evolution is correct.

"I don't believe that anybody in there really wants their kids to be taught that their great-grandfather was an ape," Buttars said.

The vote represents the latest loss for critics of evolution. In December, a federal judge barred the school system in Dover, Pa., from teaching intelligent design alongside evolution in high school biology classes.

Also last year, a federal judge ordered the school system in suburban Atlanta's Cobb County to remove from biology textbooks stickers that called evolution a theory, not a fact.

Earlier this year, a rural California school district canceled an elective philosophy course on intelligent design and agreed never to promote the topic in class again.

But critics of evolution got a boost in Kansas in November when the state Board of Education adopted new science teaching standards that treat evolution as a flawed theory, defying the view of science groups.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy; US: Utah
KEYWORDS: biofraud; crevolist; scienceeducation
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 1,541 next last
To: Doctor Stochastic

nor this


81 posted on 02/28/2006 7:09:05 AM PST by From many - one.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe

There is such a post, but I'll pass! You can go looking if you like, but I intentionally did not correct this poster because I know he can write better and probably did not only because he was upset by this thread. I don't see any point in complaining about grammar and spelling unless a person's posts are consistently almost unintelligible--and then they won't fix it anyway.


82 posted on 02/28/2006 7:09:48 AM PST by ahayes
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Blzbba
And your empirical proof of that is....?

em·pir·i·cal (Ä•m-pîr'Ä­-kÉ™l)
adj.

Relying on or derived from observation or experiment: empirical results that supported the hypothesis. Verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment: empirical laws.
Guided by practical experience and not theory, especially in medicine.

None. Same as molecule to man evolution. It is a belief.

Cordially,
GE
83 posted on 02/28/2006 7:16:04 AM PST by GrandEagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
The THEORY of evolution is just a very sad and feeble attempt to deny God. I feel bad for the Mormons in Utah; how weak and cowardly are they?
84 posted on 02/28/2006 7:17:50 AM PST by jwatzzzzz (jwatzzzzz)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: jwatzzzzz

"The THEORY of evolution is just a very sad and feeble attempt to deny God."

Nope. All theories in science refrain from using supernatural/untestable claims. Evolution is no different than relativity in that way.


85 posted on 02/28/2006 7:26:32 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe
Then why don't we allow gorillas the right to vote?

Do you think they would vote for Hillary?

86 posted on 02/28/2006 7:26:55 AM PST by RightWingNilla
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

Paleontology, Morphological homology, Genetics, and Biogeography : Belief systems designed by Satan! Placemarker
87 posted on 02/28/2006 7:27:40 AM PST by Quark2005 (Confidence follows from consilience.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe

Thats like asking why doesnt a dog climb like a bear....or why dosen't mice build dams like beavers do.

You are in serious need of a spell checker... and a grammar checker.




But not a fact checker! We share certain characteristics with other apes. No tail, omnivorous diet, opposable thumbs...

That doesn't mean that we need to rework the legal code to give orang-utans the right to have library cards, its just a classification system.


88 posted on 02/28/2006 7:33:13 AM PST by gomaaa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry

So does Utah endorse string theory or not???

It's reprehensible that they should endorse string theory when it has so few successes, especially when the quantum gravity theorists have been making so much progress.

I'm appalled! /sarcasm


89 posted on 02/28/2006 7:34:00 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gomaaa
That doesn't mean that we need to rework the legal code to give orang-utans the right to have library cards, its just a classification system.

At one time science (perhaps a long time ago?) defined man as the animal species that uses tools. And further defined tools as any object taken from nature and altered to suit a specific purpose. That is until it was discovered that chimpanzees take green twigs, strip the leave off, and insert them into termite mounds to catch termites as food. The comment that I recall reading was that, "we either need to redefine man, redefine tool, or accept chimpanzees as man."

90 posted on 02/28/2006 7:45:24 AM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: GrandEagle
Relying on or derived from observation

Whether one agrees with ToE or not, it is nonetheless empirical and derived from observation; some may wish to challenge the interpretation of those observations, but that is another matter.

If I observe that the little button inside my refrigerator must inevitably be depressed by the action of closing the door, that is an observation that convinces me the light is switched off when the refrigerator door is shut (though that is something I cannot directly observe).

91 posted on 02/28/2006 7:46:34 AM PST by ToryHeartland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy
But the bill failed in the House on a 28-46 vote Monday. The bill would have required teachers to tell students that evolution is not a fact and the state doesn't endorse the theory.

Rep. Scott Wyatt, a Republican, said he feared passing the bill would force the state to then address hundreds of other scientific theories - "from Quantum physics to Freud" - in the same manner.

I don't have a problem with the state not endorsing evolution. They shouldn't be in the business of promoting one scientific theory over another. It's not their business to determine what science is and people who use the government to enforce their particular viewpoints are pushing an adenda.

Since the ToE is a theory and evidence only supports is, according to scientists, there is no way to legitmately state that it is a fact. The best way to put it would be, "Current scientific evidence indicates that man may descended from apes (or a common ancestor, depending which evo you're talking to). A disclaimer that evolution is not a fact is no different that a disclaimer that any other scientific theory is not a fact.

92 posted on 02/28/2006 7:56:12 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: All
"I don't believe that anybody in there really wants their kids to be taught that their great-grandfather was an ape," Buttars said.

This kind of comment really shows the true underpinnings of the debate. It's not about science, and maybe not even religion. It's about ego. A lot of people feel truly insulted at the suggestion that there is some kind of connection between humans and "lower" species. You don't get that kind of response from a simple intellectual debate. There's a certain amount of hurt pride involved.

It's not simply a case of narcisism or a superiority complex, either. Evolution is a true challenge to an entire worldview: one that positions man as privileged and special instead of just another one of those stupid things crawling around in the muck. The thing is, we are privileged, even if we came from what we perceive to be rather humble beginnings. Acknowleging our connection to the rest of Earth's creepy-crawlies does not diminish the accomplishments of the human species or make Mr. Buttars any less a man.
93 posted on 02/28/2006 7:58:27 AM PST by gomaaa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: gomaaa
But not a fact checker! We share certain characteristics with other apes. No tail, omnivorous diet, opposable thumbs...

Cats and dogs share an awful lot of characterists with each other but you couldn't call a cat a dog or vice versa. Just because there are similarities between man and humans, doesn't follow that men are apes.

94 posted on 02/28/2006 7:59:46 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
"Evolution" as such has NEVER been taught in Utah schools as a proven fact.

It has always been taught as "The Theory of Evolution".(..and it still is just a theory).

Yesterday, in a 5th grade class, I was conducting a class on Paleontology....when one of the 5th graders asked about 'Evolution' and (of course) Dinosaurs.

I merely explained that we 'think' that this is how the whole thing happened...but we have no way of actually proving it.(5th graders are excellent in demanding proof). We have all sorts of fossils...but nothing that actually shows a transistion from this animal to that new one. We have bones that are similar in Jurrasic animals to those in Creataceous animals.But nothing that shows a exact transistion from one animal to the next.

The 5th graders 'got it'. It's a theory (a good one..but still just a theory). I also suggested that they look at all other theories...that somewhere (and maybe one of them can figure it out) is a better theory.

Perhaps... insisting that only those who follow the 'Religion of Evolution' are right and all others are stupid is not the best way to go.

Evolution is just a theory....and...somewhere in the future...it may be proven wrong...or right.

redrock

95 posted on 02/28/2006 8:01:52 AM PST by redrock ("How God Created us...I have no real Idea. Telling God how He 'has to do things'...is not my way")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: The_Victor

Yeah, I guess the real test of speciation between humans and chimps would be if a union between the two somehow produced fertile offspring. Such an experiment, however, is not one that ANYONE would EVER want to permit or undertake. I got the shudders even typing this post.


96 posted on 02/28/2006 8:02:09 AM PST by gomaaa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: gomaaa
It's not about science, and maybe not even religion. It's about ego. A lot of people feel truly insulted at the suggestion that there is some kind of connection between humans and "lower" species.

What a bunch of specists! :)

97 posted on 02/28/2006 8:06:16 AM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

To: gomaaa
"Yeah, I guess the real test of speciation between humans and chimps would be if a union between the two somehow produced fertile offspring. Such an experiment, however, is not one that ANYONE would EVER want to permit or undertake. I got the shudders even typing this post."

It's already been done.

It's how we got "Liberals".

redrock

98 posted on 02/28/2006 8:08:17 AM PST by redrock ("How God Created us...I have no real Idea. Telling God how He 'has to do things'...is not my way")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]

To: metmom

Cats and dogs are classified as belonging to the same ORDER according to their similarities. They are classfied as belonging to different families because of their differences. We share enough in common with other ape species to be classified as apes (official family name: Hominidae). We are different enough from other ape species to be considered a species in and of ourselves. We are apes. We are not orang-utans.


http://www.geocities.com/chunniemonster/taxonomy.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape


99 posted on 02/28/2006 8:08:58 AM PST by gomaaa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]

To: metmom
Cats and dogs share an awful lot of characterists with each other but you couldn't call a cat a dog or vice versa.

No, you would call a cat a feline and a dog a canine.

Apes are tailless primate. Humans are tailless primates. Therefore humans fit into the category of apes. It's a simple matter of classification. You would rather have us make a third classification--we'll have primates with tails (monkeys), primates without tails not including Homo sapiens (apes), and primates without tails of the species Homo sapiens (humans).

Seems rather arbitrary to me.

100 posted on 02/28/2006 8:10:02 AM PST by ahayes
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 1,541 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson