Biofuels are no cure-all for energy needs

Pioneer Press ^ | 2-19-06 | Edward Lotterman

[Rakkasan1]

When discussing economic policies it is important to not let rhetoric overpower reality. That happened in a recent, much-reprinted New York Times article that argued "endless fields of corn in the Midwest can be distilled into endless gallons of ethanol … that could end any worldwide oil shortage … and free the United States from dependence on foreign energy." The story went on to discuss how much energy goes into producing ethanol. But it failed to substantiate its lead assertion of "endless gallons of ethanol" that might "free the United States" from oil imports. The United States is an agricultural powerhouse, but even common crops like corn are not endless. In 2004, we harvested just under 12 billion bushels of corn, the most in several years. One bushel of corn yields about 2.7 gallons of ethanol. So if we processed all the corn we produce, we would have 32 billion gallons of fuel alcohol.

[DManA]

What is there to discuss? If it's economic someone will invest the money and start marketing it. If there isn't a market willing to pay the cost plus a good profit it isn't worth doing.

[dalereed]

I don't care how much you drink but keep that lousy fuel out of my gas tank!

Drill and consume the massive amount of oil in California.

[DoughtyOne]

I'll bet there's a massive amount of oil under Texas and Okalahoma too.

[jonrick46]

During 2002, US oil use averaged 19,761,000 barrels of oil per day. The shares of US oil consumption by sector were as follows:

Transportation 67.5%
Industrial 24.1%
Residential 3.9%
Electric Generation 2.5%
Commercial 1.9%

From the article:

"Processing all corn grown in the U.S. into alcohol would cover about 55 days worth of driving. That is a significant amount, but it is far from a level that "could end any worldwide oil shortage.''"

Cars run best on a 15% gasoline, 85% ethanol mix. If we could increase our corn production by four times and supplement the rest of our needed fuel with coal derived methanol, we could do it.

Another fact that the corn cobbers have failed to tell you is that corn derived ethanol is made from the cellulose fiber of the corn plant. You can still use the corn for food and the plant cellulose for methanol production. By the way, this is not the ordinary fermentation process that you find in corn liquor production. This is a chemical catalyze process that side steps long fermentation times.

The cellulose derived methanol production brings up another point. Cellulose from other plant "waste" is now a fuel source. We don't have to grow all this corn when we also have other crops that produce cellulose. This would be a good way to clear out our timber box forests of all that stuff that causes atmosphere killing forest fires.

We need to put down our corn cob pipes and think a little harder out of the box. Or, are we all stuck on stupid?

[Wiz]

It should be seen as a substitute to increase extra energy resource while China is trying to steal more oil from the market, threatening US's share. The DUmmies may be seeing illusions, but we are looking in to what is availible with limited resource, to maintain our access to energy under threat by China's growth.

[Wiz]

Crops may also be used for producing plastic. If the price of oil goes up, this might be one of the alternative for plastic. It depends on the cost, but if the cost is lower than oil by the time oil may rise for increase of consumption by China and India, this would be useful. No one would like to spend another dime buying fast food products using platic for the rise of cost of oil. It might not be a silver bullet, but useful. Forget the DUmmies ecologic illusions. It's the cost and countries such as China threatening US's shares that matters.

[JustaDumbBlonde]

...keep that lousy fuel out of my gas tank!

And your very strong opinion is based on what?

[thackney]

the Brazilians are almost completely driving flex fuel cars that use ethanol

That is quite an overstatement. Only 15% of Brazil transportation fuel comes from ethanol.

Although the majority of the cars sold there today are flex fuel cars, they only make up less than 8% of the vehicles in Brazil.

Brazil Sugar Ethanol Update – February 2006, USDA Foreign Agricultural Service

[dalereed]

Screws up fuel systems, reduces mileage, and I spent too many years using it in racing fuels, it's pure crap!

[RightWhale]

all the little things that add-up

What do they add-up to? 600 new nuke plants?

[Bob]

everybody poopoos

now if we can convert that.....

Don't be too sure that we can't. I saw an FR thread the other day on SF looking into using dog crap for energy production. I'll see if I can find a link to it.

[dogcaller]

These are the people who drive their Volvos to the airport to fly to Aspen (or aspire to) where they spin their economic and environmental theories over wine, cheese and caviar...longing for the day that everyone else will live on potatos and beans grown in their state allocated garden space adjacent to their government planned ecovillage.

[ronnied]

ok

[david06]

Ethanol is a load of crap. How much oil goes into fertilizing and harvesting all the corn for it? Add to that that ethanol is less efficient than oil, and we are taking a net energy loss by converting oil to corn to ethanol.

[righthand man]

The picture is the best description of a new yorker I've seen.

[righthand man]

How much diesel does a farmer use to produce those 2 gallons?

cost it would be in the range of 6-7 gallons per acre, Thats for breaking the ground to harvest.

With an average yield of 120 - 125 bushels .
.05 gallons per bushel

This only figures the cost to the farmer.

[spikeytx86]

I was just going by last months fortune article. Still though, most new cars there are flex fuel and 1 sixth of cars on the road are flex fuel. It's not a Utopian solution by any-means, but if we can greatly increase production efficiency it will go along way in reducing our dependence on foreign oil. The most hopeful tool we have to really reduce it and its a proven technology is nuclear.

[VeniVidiVici]

What do they add-up to? 600 new nuke plants?

Sun's over the yardarm somewhere.

[JustaDumbBlonde]

Link to the dog poop story:

San Francisco to test turning dog waste into power

[JustaDumbBlonde]

Thanks for the reply. I have never used ethanol, but I am using biodiesel with absolutely no problems.