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It Didn’t Work (Buckley declares Iraq a failure)
National Review Online ^ | 02/24/06 | William F Buckley Jr

Posted on 02/24/2006 7:12:07 PM PST by CometBaby

"I can tell you the main reason behind all our woes — it is America." The New York Times reporter is quoting the complaint of a clothing merchant in a Sunni stronghold in Iraq. "Everything that is going on between Sunni and Shiites, the troublemaker in the middle is America."

One can't doubt that the American objective in Iraq has failed. The same edition of the paper quotes a fellow of the American Enterprise Institute. Mr. Reuel Marc Gerecht backed the American intervention. He now speaks of the bombing of the especially sacred Shiite mosque in Samara and what that has precipitated in the way of revenge. He concludes that “The bombing has completely demolished” what was being attempted — to bring Sunnis into the defense and interior ministries.

Our mission has failed because Iraqi animosities have proved uncontainable by an invading army of 130,000 Americans. The great human reserves that call for civil life haven't proved strong enough. No doubt they are latently there, but they have not been able to contend against the ice men who move about in the shadows with bombs and grenades and pistols.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: buckley; buckleysondrugs; bushbotsrkool; conservativenomore; cultofpersonality; dubyaisinfallible; failure; freeperlitmustest; howdareyouquestionw; iraq; nationalreview; quislingbuckely; stfubill; wfb; whosyourdaddy
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To: connectthedots

Yeah, who cares what Buckley thinks, he's only the most important and influential thinker of the modern conservative movement.


61 posted on 02/24/2006 8:06:28 PM PST by garv
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To: CometBaby
I don't believe Buckley has been a believer in the mission in Iraq from the very beginning. My question for Mr. Buckley and any skeptic is what is the alternative?

The Democrats like posturing and hand wringing by turn. The war on terror is has two objectives. First, the effort is to protect the people of the United States. Has that been successful? What are the chances for continued success?

Then, after the rout of the Taliban and Hussein, it looks to me that the effort is to change utterly the dynamic in the world. Has that been successful? Will it be successful? I submit that the WTC, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania were battles in a larger war. So is Afghanistan, Iraq and many other events. I submit that changing the dynamic is the ultimate goal.

If I understand Buckley, he is saying it hasn't been done and can't be done. I hope he is wrong. I don't think posturing and hand wringing will avail any worthy outcome.

62 posted on 02/24/2006 8:07:05 PM PST by stevem
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To: Bazooka

We won the Battle of Tet. I believe the crazies in Iraq realizing that they are lossing and now, just like the Viet Cong, are lanching their "TET"
Time to hang tough and support our President and troops


63 posted on 02/24/2006 8:08:23 PM PST by bybybill (If the Rats win, we are doomed)
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To: CometBaby

After reading this thread and others on recent events, it's stunning to me how many people adhere to GOP politics just like Dims do to Lib politics w/o any questioning, reasoning, or challenging of the administration.

I presume that those people are not conservatives, but I'm guessing many are.

Anyway, that's no better than the libs other than your gonna be right more often than not for whatever consolation that's worth.


64 posted on 02/24/2006 8:08:37 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Sam Cree
so it's probably not accurate to say they don't want democracy.

Not necessarily. I can see two possible situations arising in Iraq (and only two). They have democracy for a short period of time before they vote in what amounts to a theocracy, which eventually will remove democractic standards. Or a civil war breaks out where the final resolution is three separate states. Iraq is too diverse to exist as a democracy. It was nothing more than a state created after WWI.

65 posted on 02/24/2006 8:09:50 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: SteveMcKing

It's more about Republicanism than Conservatism.

Anyone who isn't totally gung-ho about Iraq is ostracized.


66 posted on 02/24/2006 8:10:03 PM PST by Eighth Street (Who do you hate more? Muslims who want to kill you or the Libs who want to sell you out to them?)
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To: Revolting cat!
"One of these postulates, from the beginning, was that the Iraqi people, whatever their tribal differences, would suspend internal divisions in order to get on with life in a political structure that guaranteed them religious freedom."

If Buckley is right it will be a dark age for Iraq and a bonanza for Iran and Al Qaeda. Africa can't get past the tribe either and look at the life they have. It may be the case that the worst tendencies of human nature are the Dominant ones.

The US will be vastly worse off if this fails. All the worst elements will unite, encouraged by that failure.

67 posted on 02/24/2006 8:11:20 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: SteveMcKing

Bye bye!


68 posted on 02/24/2006 8:13:38 PM PST by OldFriend
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To: bybybill
We won the Battle of Tet.

Funny you mentioned that. A few years back, I wrote a paper for a university history class on how the military won Tet, and the media spun it as a loss. Turned out the teacher was a raging liberal, so I came out with a D.
69 posted on 02/24/2006 8:13:50 PM PST by BubbaTheRocketScientist
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To: CometBaby
Even if it doesn't work out for the whole of Iraq, read Michael Totten's first-hand reports from the Kurdish area of Iraq and see how much of a failure that has been.

http://www.michaeltotten.com/

You know, I'm tempted to suggest that we let the Kurds break away from the rest and become autonomous. Reward their ability to control the violent types by giving them what they really want ... Kurdistan.

Though, as it turns out, the highest elected office in Iraq is held by a Kurd who wants to keep Iraq whole.

70 posted on 02/24/2006 8:13:53 PM PST by Stegall Tx (I probably should go back to work one of these days....)
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To: adorno

Wonder if Buckley will conclude that all those church burnings in Alabama means America is OVER!


71 posted on 02/24/2006 8:14:53 PM PST by OldFriend
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To: Jeff Head
...

So guess what? All of those purple fingers don't lie, despite the MSM and liberal/socialists attempts to the contrary.

Yeah, but that is by no means a guarantee of success over the long haul. There are still quite a few stones in the road that can cause a big collision. A good chunk, a large one in fact, had to do with us being able to train Iraqis to takeover for US soldiers, but IMO we're not having nearly the success there that we should be. The problem is that Iraq's future in that way, at least some of it, is predicated on that happening.

I agree, big success thus far. But as has been proven for decades now, it takes a vast minority in muslim controlled nations to turn things into a dungheap. We're never going to get all the "bad" muslims over there, so at some point they're gonna have to begin policing themselves. That points of WFB's is very valid.

I'm all for being over there until the job's done, but how long's that gonna be given the seeming lack of stepping up to the point of anything close to near complete effectiveness so that we can feel comfortable in leaving? I'm just not seeing that on the part of the Iraqis. Maybe it's just not being reported, and I know that there are pockets of success. But mere "pockets" of success in this way just aren't going to cut it over the long haul.

72 posted on 02/24/2006 8:16:27 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: garv

Buckley is an ivory tower conservative thinker. His ideas are often too impractical and unworkable.

There is no doubting his intellect. His common sense is another matter.


73 posted on 02/24/2006 8:16:27 PM PST by connectthedots
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To: SteveMcKing
Bunch of spoiled unruly freshmen showed up in 2001, melded 9-11 into a weapon for their leftist views

This comment reminded me of a thread here the other night where people we getting all gushy about our new best friend Allen Derschowitz because he blasted the dismissal of Larry Summers.

When I see people who have lived their lives on the left suddenly rush to the conservative side, that concerns me. I wish to embrace all people who are animated by broadly conservative sentiments but I am concerned that some have come to us over one and only one issue.

74 posted on 02/24/2006 8:17:50 PM PST by LK44-40
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To: BubbaTheRocketScientist
As I`m sure you learned, Gen Giap, threw the entire Viet Cong force at our guys and, after some tough days, were destroyed. Giap thought he had lost the war until he saw the reaction of the US media. Then he knew he was going to win.
75 posted on 02/24/2006 8:20:03 PM PST by bybybill (If the Rats win, we are doomed)
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To: CometBaby
Didn't Mr. Buckley almost get in a fistfight with someone on TV one time?

I would have liked to have seen that!

76 posted on 02/24/2006 8:21:05 PM PST by Siena Dreaming
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To: bybybill
As I`m sure you learned, Gen Giap, threw the entire Viet Cong force at our guys and, after some tough days, were destroyed. Giap thought he had lost the war until he saw the reaction of the US media. Then he knew he was going to win.

Yep, we kicked the crap out of them. Interestingly, I found some academic research done a few years after which detailed the media's reporting bias. It was an interesting read. The media hasn't changed much since those days.
77 posted on 02/24/2006 8:22:40 PM PST by BubbaTheRocketScientist
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To: bybybill
The press...our French Achilles Heel.
78 posted on 02/24/2006 8:23:43 PM PST by CWOJackson
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To: billbears

In spite of the fact that the large turnouts convinced me that they want democracy, I don't disagree with you at all on those 2 scenarios. My opinion is that although they likely do want an Islamic state, they don't want a Taliban type of government. Beyond that, the division in 3 makes some sense.


79 posted on 02/24/2006 8:25:24 PM PST by Sam Cree (absolute reality) - ("Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein)
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To: Siena Dreaming
Didn't Mr. Buckley almost get in a fistfight with someone on TV one time?

Yes....it was with that repulsive, America-bashing, expat queer Gore Vidal.

80 posted on 02/24/2006 8:27:10 PM PST by LK44-40
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