Yes, we have had these discussions at least 4 times... every time in Mac threads where you feel it is necessary to criticize a system you admittedly know very little about. Why you feel it is necessary to criticize Macs and their users in Mac threads I will never know.
In this thread you essentially called ALL Mac users liars. That means you called Terpfen and me liars. I challenged that. You then repeated the slur, as you have done at least four times before:
BS. I see Mac users all the time saying things like "I never have any trouble..." and then assert that PC users always have problems with malware. If you read Apple support forums, you will see there are many, many users with problems, some of which (e.g. kernel panics) are unheard of on PCs. You don't even know what or who I'm talking about, yet you assert I'm wrong. Incredible.
What part of "THEY are not lying." do you fail to understand? They have not experienced the problems. PERIOD. They are not the people who have had a problem and gone to a Mac trouble shooting forum to find an answer.
I have been using Mac OS X computers for five years and have seen maybe five kernal panics on ten or more computers. . . most of them on early versions of OS X. The same is true of the vast majority of Mac users. They are TRUTHFULLY reporting their experiences.
Many of those Mac users are also ex-Windows users and when they assert that Windows users "always have problems with malware" they are remembering their Windows experiences and the complaints they hear from the Windows using friends.
So what if you can go to Apple Support and find "many, many users" with problems. That represents a few thousand (maybe) out of 25,000,000 OS X Mac users... yet you assert that Mac OS X users who have not experienced problems are lying when they tell you that they have not experienced problems.
Nope... Apple products don't count if they don't run OSX?
No, 1L, if were discussing Apple computers then we are talking about OS X computers... those that were shipped in the last five years... not ancient history. We could also talk about all the issues with BSOD with Windows 95 and 98... but that, too, is ancient history.
I have used Macs extensively over the past 15 years.
Only your experience with Mac OS X over the past FIVE years would have any relevance to this discussion. And I mean USED productively, not just poked at the keyboard and moved the mouse for a few minutes in a store. Otherwise, your comments are like comments about Ford products based on your experiences with an Edsel... irrelevent and completely outdated.
I can not find a Mac so-called power user who doesn't own as many Windows machines as I do.
Why should they? They are Mac power users... and have no need of Windows anymore. But, you will find more Mac users that own Windows machines than Windows users that own Macs... that's a given... but the point was that Windows users are generally ignorant about Macs... while the reverse is not as true for Mac users. My point was that many Mac users are familiar with BOTH environments... often using Windows at work, but Macs at home. Seldom is it the other way around.
You say its because its your business to support computers and more clients use PCs than Macs, but why don't you figure out why that is. Its because for them, its more useful.
I have figured it out. But, 1L, sometimes the reason is purely inertia. Windows is what they were sold and Windows is what they stick with. Those clients of mine that have switched to Macs have been much happier with their computers. (And yes, there are Mac vertical solutions for many industries as well). Unfortunately for me, I don't make as much money from those accounts after they switch.
You can't seriously deny that Mac users aren't emotionally attached to their machines, and that is truly idiotic.
I don't think I have ever denied that. Mac users do get emotionally attached to the computer OS (not necessarily a specific machine, although I have run into that) because they appreciate the "Mac" experience. These Windows users are much more likely to make statement like The thing is: its only a tool, not something to get emotionally attached to.
Maybe you should ask yourself why Windows users don't get emotionally attached to Windows. I know people who were Windows users who did NOT enjoy their time on their computers who found that computing WAS enjoyable after they switched... and became emotionally attached. Converts to Mac, like converts to almost any religion, become much more evangelistic than people who have grown up in that religion or using Macs. They want others to "see the light" and find the enjoyment.
Please read through our past discussions and only respond with something new. If I've repeated something, please ignore it. I'm not interested in having this discussion with you every 6 months or so. It is amazing how you can troll every Mac thread and defend Apple against any criticism -- especially by me -- yet, you never show up on threads where I'm saying the iPod is the best music player on the market.
1L, this is a Mac thread... you are the "troll" here, not me. I maintain the Mac Ping list on FreeRepublic. It is YOU who has nothing new to offer when you post in a Mac thread... just the same old, same old, outdated negative comments that are not based on any true experience with the OS we are discussing. You might be surprised to find that I agree with many of your comments IF we were talking about OS9 and earlier... but we are not. As to the iPod threads... I read them... and post... but I don't own an iPod, so any commentary I might make, beyond correcting a few posters who like to post outdated information about the iPod (such as "you can't replace the battery" or "The batteries cost over $100"), would be as ignorant as yours on OS X.
If you don't want to me to continually correct your mis-information about Macs or discuss your ignorant opinions about an OS you don't use, then don't post mis-information or ignorant opinions in Mac threads. Certainly don't paint me and other Mac users as "liars" because you know a few Mac users who have had problems. We haven't and are therefore NOT LYING.
I'll have to respond to the rest later, but just for a few bites:
>>you feel it is necessary to criticize a system you admittedly know very little about<<
First of all, I know plenty about it. Maybe not as much as you, but I've used it through the interface and through the terminal program after spending a great deal of time setting up my BSD systems. I haven't done a great deal with things like Applescript, but I've ran apps like Photoshop and music programs on there. Second, the only thing critical I said about OSX computers was that they were too expensive and too slow. That was in response to YOUR comment, not an original comment I made on this thread. You are being dishonest about what is being said if you are asserting I'm the one on here causing trouble. I never made an original statement, only one in response.
>>In this thread you essentially called ALL Mac users liars.<<
This is a lie. What was specifically stated was "mac users lying..." It was in response to the statement, "I just find it amusing that PC users are drawn to Mac threads -- to the extent that their posts frequently outnumber those of the Mac folks. Sort of like the morbid folks who watch NASCAR -- hoping for a wreck...." I was correcting the statement, and nowhere did I assert ALL mac users were liars. I know several (probably 6 or 7) mac users that agree with me almost 100% on these issues, but for one reason or another, use that platform for their work. Mostly musicians that work with Mac only studios extensively.
Why are you arguing like a liberal by making things up about what I said?
>>They have not experienced the problems. PERIOD. <<
Just like Windows users like me don't have the malware issues that Mac users always assert we do. You can't have it both ways.
Besides, my point was that there is no paradise in computing. For example, read these:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=374520&tstart=0
and this:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=368423&tstart=0
and this:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=372858&tstart=15
It took me 2 minutes to find problems I've NEVER had in extensive use of multiple operating systems since 1983. Don't feed me the BS that Mac users don't have any problems and their computers work perfectly. They don't. They may not have the EXACT issues Windows has, but they have their own issues. That, along with the fact that it is not automatic that Windows user suffer from malware issues (I don't), was my only point.
I was using kernel panic as an example. You said here you've had 5 in the past few years on 10 or more computers. Since starting to use Windows NT in 1995 (2000 and XP to follow with a dizzying array of hardware configurations) in many organizations (including my own) and home (many, many more than 10 computers) I don't think I've had more than 6-8 actual crashes where I was forced to reboot the system. Maybe right at that number, and I have rebooted a number of times because I felt it would help things out. Now, what does that all mean? I'm not sure, but it doesn't support the notion that the Mac product is inherently superior.
I'll have to finish this later.