Dude, we (meaning YOU AND I) have had this discussion at least 4 times. Why you get defensive about the least little criticism of the Mac or of Apple, I will never know.
>>they are not lying<<
BS. I see Mac users all the time saying things like "I never have any trouble..." and then assert that PC users always have problems with malware. If you read Apple support forums, you will see there are many, many users with problems, some of which (e.g. kernel panics) are unheard of on PCs. You don't even know what or who I'm talking about, yet you assert I'm wrong. Incredible.
>>but do you own an OS X Mac<<
Nope. Too expensive and too slow. What? Apple products don't count if they don't run OSX? I was responding to the absolutely stupid claim (stupid because it was made without any information about me, and it was something the poster simply wanted to be true) that I was an Apple "hater." That's what I was responding to, and whether I own or have owned an OSX running product is irrelevent to that.
>> then you have very little experience with modern Macs on which to base your opinions.<<
I have used Macs extensively over the past 15 years. No, not as much as PCs running Windows and various flavors of *nix OS's, but I have used them nontheless. Please don't make ignorant comments.
>>own several Windows machines<<
This has always been amazing to me. I can not find a Mac so-called power user who doesn't own as many Windows machines as I do. Why is that if the Mac is the holy grail?
You say its because its your business to support computers and more clients use PCs than Macs, but why don't you figure out why that is. Its because for them, its more useful.
Then, you assert "I've never had a kernel panic (or whatever), so it isn't a big problem on the Mac", yet, you ignorantly claim that all PC users must by definition be hampered with malware intrusions (even though I'm not, and its very easy and FREE not to be).
>> Many Mac users have come from the Windows environment... and again have experience on both platforms.<<
I know as many people that have switched to the Windows platform from the Mac. You can't find school districts running Macs anymore. I do think these and other organizations can significantly improve their IT performance by getting off the Windows server products onto the open source products, as I have done. But even if someone or an organization chooses to go the Mac route, that's great. I fully support using the tool you want to do the job. The thing is: its only a tool, not something to get emotionally attached to. You can't seriously deny that Mac users aren't emotionally attached to their machines, and that is truly idiotic.
Please read through our past discussions and only respond with something new. If I've repeated something, please ignore it. I'm not interested in having this discussion with you every 6 months or so. It is amazing how you can troll every Mac thread and defend Apple against any criticism -- especially by me -- yet, you never show up on threads where I'm saying the iPod is the best music player on the market.
Yes, we have had these discussions at least 4 times... every time in Mac threads where you feel it is necessary to criticize a system you admittedly know very little about. Why you feel it is necessary to criticize Macs and their users in Mac threads I will never know.
In this thread you essentially called ALL Mac users liars. That means you called Terpfen and me liars. I challenged that. You then repeated the slur, as you have done at least four times before:
BS. I see Mac users all the time saying things like "I never have any trouble..." and then assert that PC users always have problems with malware. If you read Apple support forums, you will see there are many, many users with problems, some of which (e.g. kernel panics) are unheard of on PCs. You don't even know what or who I'm talking about, yet you assert I'm wrong. Incredible.
What part of "THEY are not lying." do you fail to understand? They have not experienced the problems. PERIOD. They are not the people who have had a problem and gone to a Mac trouble shooting forum to find an answer.
I have been using Mac OS X computers for five years and have seen maybe five kernal panics on ten or more computers. . . most of them on early versions of OS X. The same is true of the vast majority of Mac users. They are TRUTHFULLY reporting their experiences.
Many of those Mac users are also ex-Windows users and when they assert that Windows users "always have problems with malware" they are remembering their Windows experiences and the complaints they hear from the Windows using friends.
So what if you can go to Apple Support and find "many, many users" with problems. That represents a few thousand (maybe) out of 25,000,000 OS X Mac users... yet you assert that Mac OS X users who have not experienced problems are lying when they tell you that they have not experienced problems.
Nope... Apple products don't count if they don't run OSX?
No, 1L, if were discussing Apple computers then we are talking about OS X computers... those that were shipped in the last five years... not ancient history. We could also talk about all the issues with BSOD with Windows 95 and 98... but that, too, is ancient history.
I have used Macs extensively over the past 15 years.
Only your experience with Mac OS X over the past FIVE years would have any relevance to this discussion. And I mean USED productively, not just poked at the keyboard and moved the mouse for a few minutes in a store. Otherwise, your comments are like comments about Ford products based on your experiences with an Edsel... irrelevent and completely outdated.
I can not find a Mac so-called power user who doesn't own as many Windows machines as I do.
Why should they? They are Mac power users... and have no need of Windows anymore. But, you will find more Mac users that own Windows machines than Windows users that own Macs... that's a given... but the point was that Windows users are generally ignorant about Macs... while the reverse is not as true for Mac users. My point was that many Mac users are familiar with BOTH environments... often using Windows at work, but Macs at home. Seldom is it the other way around.
You say its because its your business to support computers and more clients use PCs than Macs, but why don't you figure out why that is. Its because for them, its more useful.
I have figured it out. But, 1L, sometimes the reason is purely inertia. Windows is what they were sold and Windows is what they stick with. Those clients of mine that have switched to Macs have been much happier with their computers. (And yes, there are Mac vertical solutions for many industries as well). Unfortunately for me, I don't make as much money from those accounts after they switch.
You can't seriously deny that Mac users aren't emotionally attached to their machines, and that is truly idiotic.
I don't think I have ever denied that. Mac users do get emotionally attached to the computer OS (not necessarily a specific machine, although I have run into that) because they appreciate the "Mac" experience. These Windows users are much more likely to make statement like The thing is: its only a tool, not something to get emotionally attached to.
Maybe you should ask yourself why Windows users don't get emotionally attached to Windows. I know people who were Windows users who did NOT enjoy their time on their computers who found that computing WAS enjoyable after they switched... and became emotionally attached. Converts to Mac, like converts to almost any religion, become much more evangelistic than people who have grown up in that religion or using Macs. They want others to "see the light" and find the enjoyment.
Please read through our past discussions and only respond with something new. If I've repeated something, please ignore it. I'm not interested in having this discussion with you every 6 months or so. It is amazing how you can troll every Mac thread and defend Apple against any criticism -- especially by me -- yet, you never show up on threads where I'm saying the iPod is the best music player on the market.
1L, this is a Mac thread... you are the "troll" here, not me. I maintain the Mac Ping list on FreeRepublic. It is YOU who has nothing new to offer when you post in a Mac thread... just the same old, same old, outdated negative comments that are not based on any true experience with the OS we are discussing. You might be surprised to find that I agree with many of your comments IF we were talking about OS9 and earlier... but we are not. As to the iPod threads... I read them... and post... but I don't own an iPod, so any commentary I might make, beyond correcting a few posters who like to post outdated information about the iPod (such as "you can't replace the battery" or "The batteries cost over $100"), would be as ignorant as yours on OS X.
If you don't want to me to continually correct your mis-information about Macs or discuss your ignorant opinions about an OS you don't use, then don't post mis-information or ignorant opinions in Mac threads. Certainly don't paint me and other Mac users as "liars" because you know a few Mac users who have had problems. We haven't and are therefore NOT LYING.
Actually fairly common on windows PCs.... just not known by the same name. Ever seen the "Blue Screen of Death"? Those unrecoverable errors that Windows is known for? That is the Windows equivalent of a Kernal panic. And in my experience - I have seen such problems FAR more in Windows machines (from 98 XP SP2). I have seen a Kernal Panic exactly twice in my experience with OSX - One was with a piece of software (actually a game) that the developer acknowleded was their own coding error. The other was from a defective stick of RAM.