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Troops Honed in '03 Fighting a Different War in Iraq-(dont read if you have heart problems)
washington post ^ | February 18, 2006; | Thomas E. Ricks

Posted on 02/18/2006 6:55:13 AM PST by Flavius

BAGHDAD -- During his first tour in Iraq two years ago, recalled Army Sgt. James Eyler, "the mindset of the whole unit was, if they pose a threat at all, shoot to kill."

Back then, "we didn't trust any Iraqis," he added as he manned a machine gun atop a Humvee and prepared to go out on a night raid this week. These days, Eyler says he is forcing himself to be more patient with Iraqis. "Now we understand that to get out of here, we're going to have to," he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: iraq; iraqiarmy; oif; progress

1 posted on 02/18/2006 6:55:16 AM PST by Flavius
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To: Flavius
Something has changed in Iraq over the past 60 days or so. Before then I would hear daily that another 1-4 of our boys were killed. But beginning about 45-60 days ago it seems that days go buy without an announcement by the gleeful msm of another soldier being killed. Perhaps the Iraqis really are getting much more involved in their own security and if so we should soon start seeing a modest take down of troop numbers.
2 posted on 02/18/2006 7:19:24 AM PST by Eagles Talon IV
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To: Eagles Talon IV
Three things happened:

Interim government took over from the Coalition Provisional authority

The Iraqui contitution was ratified

Elections occurred in December 05

America held it's side of the bargain now the Iraquis will hold theirs.

I have to say it: It's George Bush's fault!!!

3 posted on 02/18/2006 7:26:01 AM PST by bubman
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To: bubman

That, that George Bush!


4 posted on 02/18/2006 8:34:51 AM PST by FreeAtlanta (Join FR Team 36120 at http://folding.stanford.edu {Protein Folding Project})
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To: Eagles Talon IV
The average number killed per day is down slightly. The number wounded is down significantly. This has been attributed to more sophisticated, more powerful IEDs that are being deterred more effectively.
5 posted on 02/18/2006 10:24:30 AM PST by Dilbert56
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To: Flavius
To me, this just describes the normal evolution of battle plans. As a situation changes you adjust. Circumstances are definitely different now than then. Attempting to fault the troops in 2003 and 2004 according to today's circumstances is not a valid comparison.
6 posted on 02/18/2006 1:56:12 PM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done, needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Flavius

Like it or not, this is the description of a police action, not war.

Warriors should NOT be in any country fighting a police action. We should fight wars, not engage in police actions.

If we want to send Marines and Army soldiers overseas to engage in politically correct police actions, then we should form a new branch of the military and train heavily armed policemen for that task. It is nuts to have Marines in a place like this doing police action--this is NOT what they were trained for.


7 posted on 02/18/2006 4:50:46 PM PST by Dont_Tread_On_Me_888 (Bush's #1 priority Africa. #2 priority appease Fox and Mexico . . . USA priority #64.)
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888

The point of training the Iraqis is to get them to take over policing the country


8 posted on 02/18/2006 4:58:02 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the hubris to think they will be the planners)
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888
If we want to send Marines and Army soldiers overseas to engage in politically correct police actions, then we should form a new branch of the military and train heavily armed policemen for that task. It is nuts to have Marines in a place like this doing police action--this is NOT what they were trained for.

What do you think the post-war occupations of Germany and Japan consisted of? They were nothing but "police actions", too. And the military seems to have handled those situations rather well.

Post-war occupations: isn't that why every branch has a Civil Affairs unit?

9 posted on 02/18/2006 5:08:57 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Flavius
"..reflect a growing sense that the U.S. military committed several major errors in 2003-04, when it lacked cultural understanding and tended to use force as the tool of first resort."

Spot the reporter who has never been shot at.

10 posted on 02/18/2006 5:12:27 PM PST by norton
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To: okie01
What do you think the post-war occupations of Germany and Japan consisted of?

After WW II, we controlled the media. We had full censorship of the media. This is what caused a more rapid achievement of our goals.

The police action today in Iraq, without full control of the media, is costing us the lives of our troops and our allies. It is nuts. We should never engage in a war if we do not do everything possible to win the war and then use all the tool to win the peace, with the FULL range of the tools at our disposal.

11 posted on 02/18/2006 5:27:42 PM PST by Dont_Tread_On_Me_888 (Bush's #1 priority Africa. #2 priority appease Fox and Mexico . . . USA priority #64.)
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888
After WW II, we controlled the media. We had full censorship of the media.

That is true, so far as the indigenous media is concerned.

But I don't beleive the indigenous media represent any kind of realistic threat to the success of our policies.

Instead, the threat comes from our domestic media...

12 posted on 02/18/2006 6:13:45 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: okie01
Instead, the threat comes from our domestic media...

Actually, during WW II, we censored are own media as well, which is what we should be doing now. The Office of Censorship was established in 1941.

13 posted on 02/18/2006 8:40:18 PM PST by Dont_Tread_On_Me_888 (Bush's #1 priority Africa. #2 priority appease Fox and Mexico . . . USA priority #64.)
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To: Dilbert56

"This has been attributed to more sophisticated, more powerful IEDs that are being deterred more effectively."

More like used more sparingly. They are more effective individually, being harder to detect and resistant (if not immune) to ECM, are more often directional to defeat armored Humvees and armored private security vehicles. But at a cost of being harder and slower to make. I've seen some impressive performance by some of the latest armored sedans & SUVs against simple blast-IEDs. One good example is the VBIED that was used in an attempt to assassinate an Iraqi general, all caught on video. There was not much more than a car-length or two between the VBIED and the target in front and the security SUV about the same distance behind when it went up in a massive blast. Only the bomber was killed.


14 posted on 02/18/2006 8:57:07 PM PST by neutronsgalore (Why are free-traders so blind to the assistance they’re providing our enemies?)
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888

"Like it or not, this is the description of a police action, not war.

Warriors should NOT be in any country fighting a police action. We should fight wars, not engage in police actions."

Hard to see what you are advocating should have been the course of action in this case?

* Invade country, blow up some stuff, depose government, cut'n'run?
* Invade country, place under military occupation government, take no steps to return any form of sovereignty, have large numbers of troops carrying on periodically blowing stuff up for forseeable future?
* Not invade in the first place?


15 posted on 02/19/2006 1:15:47 AM PST by Canard
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888
re :Warriors should NOT be in any country fighting a police action. We should fight wars, not engage in police actions.

Most modern armed conflicts have been what would be described as Police Actions rather than of a major war.

Most of the Colonial Wars of the 18/19th century fell under that heading.

16 posted on 02/20/2006 5:33:51 AM PST by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: tonycavanagh

"Most modern armed conflicts have been what would be described as Police Actions rather than of a major war.

Most of the Colonial Wars of the 18/19th century fell under that heading."

Most of the Indian Wars fought by the United States in the 19th Century were police actions. So were Shay's Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion. Imagine how different this country would be if we had not engaged in those police actions.


17 posted on 02/20/2006 5:37:48 AM PST by No Truce With Kings (The opinions expressed are mine! Mine! MINE! All Mine!)
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To: Eagles Talon IV

"Something has changed in Iraq over the past 60 days or so."

There are enough Iraqis trained that their army is now standing up. There is a major Shia religious celebration that falls in February. In 2004 and 2005 there were scores of people killed by terrorists attempting to break up the ceremonies. This year zero people were killed. 2006 was the first year Iraqi police and military had responsibility for providing security.

We *are* winning.


18 posted on 02/20/2006 5:42:18 AM PST by No Truce With Kings (The opinions expressed are mine! Mine! MINE! All Mine!)
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