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Mo. firefighters refuse to help non-member
modbee ^ | 2-16-06

Posted on 02/16/2006 3:52:53 PM PST by LouAvul

Edited on 02/16/2006 6:43:01 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

MONETT, Mo. (AP) - Rural firefighters stood by and watched a fire destroy a garage and a vehicle because the property owner had not paid membership dues.

Bibaldo Rueda - who was injured battling the flames Monday - offered to pay the dues as the fire blazed away, but the Monett Rural Fire Department does not have a policy for on-the-spot billing, Sheriff's Detective Robert Evenson said.


(Excerpt) Read more at modbee.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Missouri
KEYWORDS: firefighters; missouri
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To: listenhillary
You seem think that because it fits your idea of "how things ought to be" that it should be forced on them. Because you know what's best for them. Sounds like...hmm statists?

I don't know about knowing what's "best" for people - I was just amazed to realize that here in America there are areas where basic government services are not provided. I'm not talking about museums, parks or garbage pick-up - I'm talking about basic police and fire protection.

If the people of that area voted NOT to provide themselves with fire protection - then God help them, they have the government which they deserve.

341 posted on 02/17/2006 7:48:13 AM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: Tokra
7400 people x $20 a year x 7 years(life expectancy of a fire truck) = over a million dollars. That's plenty enough to buy a truck and a building.

You are thinking people instead of households, assume about 4 people per household so that cuts 3/4 of your amount right there.

You are also assuming it's the city, it's not, it's rural so cut that number by a whole bunch more there as well. The city is taken care of by the city, this is the rural area that doesn't have near the population density.

342 posted on 02/17/2006 7:49:29 AM PST by ozarkgirl
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Tell me - why do governments exist? If not to provide basic protections - what's the point?


343 posted on 02/17/2006 7:50:57 AM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: Tokra
or garbage pick-up

Wow, it never occurred to me the government would pick up our trash. We have to pay for that too! Is that paid for in taxes where you are?

344 posted on 02/17/2006 7:52:22 AM PST by ozarkgirl
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To: Tokra

"where basic government services are not provided"

The services are provided, just not provided by the government.


345 posted on 02/17/2006 7:52:55 AM PST by listenhillary ("Mainstream media" is creating it's own reality~everything sucks)
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To: ozarkgirl
You are thinking people instead of households, assume about 4 people per household so that cuts 3/4 of your amount right there.

Yes - I'm talking people. $80 a year in taxes for fire protection for a family of four sounds reasonable to me. Again, I go back to the question - if governments do not exist to provide basic protection - what is their function?

346 posted on 02/17/2006 7:53:42 AM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: listenhillary
The services are provided, just not provided by the government.

So, do they have a mercenary army for a police force? Is not fire protection just as important as police protection? If you've got a sheriff - you ought to have a fireman.

347 posted on 02/17/2006 7:55:53 AM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: Tokra
Tell me - why do governments exist? If not to provide basic protections - what's the point?

This was not a government entity.

This was an association of citizens who banded together to fill the need for a fire department where none existed.

They have no government powers.

Their only power is to withhold services from people who didn't help pay for the equipment and training.

I repeat: this volunteer fire department was not a government entity.

Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend? Are you a Bolshevik or something?

348 posted on 02/17/2006 7:56:32 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam Factoid:After forcing young girls to watch his men execute their fathers, Muhammad raped them.)
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To: Tokra

What happens if you don't pay your property taxes?

In the US, your property is seized by the county and sold at auction to pay the taxes.

Now consider...

What happens if you don't buy a fire tag? You run the RISK of having a fire and losing your property.


349 posted on 02/17/2006 7:57:05 AM PST by listenhillary ("Mainstream media" is creating it's own reality~everything sucks)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

This sounds like a private firefighting company, sort of like insurance. Apparently taxes don't pay for firefighting. If you don't pay your dues, they don't put out your fire. Sounds fair to me. He took a gamble and lost.


350 posted on 02/17/2006 7:59:07 AM PST by rcofdayton
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To: Tokra

See my post #324, how much do you pay in taxes for a 2000 sq ft home with 1/2 acre? I still say our way works better, if this guy wants his garage and vehicle taken care of by tax money, then go somewhere where it happens.

Our state and his area in particular don't want that as evidenced by the vote in 2001. He doesn't like it, move somewhere with higher taxes. Why should everyone here have to change because he moved here?

He claims ignorance yet his 3 other neighbors in very close proximity paid their dues, he of the 4 homes chose not to pay and then having a hissy fit because he wasn't covered anyway. What's a hoot is he could have moved here for the low cost of living and cheap taxes!


351 posted on 02/17/2006 8:00:00 AM PST by ozarkgirl
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To: Tokra

"Is not fire protection just as important as police protection? "

In my mind yes it is just as important, but these people have MADE THE CHOICE THEMSELVES how to fund their local fire services.

Do they not have that right?


352 posted on 02/17/2006 8:00:05 AM PST by listenhillary ("Mainstream media" is creating it's own reality~everything sucks)
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To: sgtbono2002
Not just those who pay.

How Marxist of you. From each according to his means. To each according to his needs. Subsume the needs of the individual to the needs of the proletariat.

There are also liability issues involved. You assume a duty, and the beneficiary isn't happy with the job you do, you are likely to be sued personally. So in addition to not having the income from the non-payers, the volunteers will have to insure against that risk.

353 posted on 02/17/2006 8:02:35 AM PST by PAR35
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To: TexanToTheCore
Good morning.
"If you live in a rural area with a volunteer fire department it is a good idea to join, otherwise...."

I live in a rural area and the only people who are members of our volunteer fire department are the ones fighting the fires and saving the lives.

They are on the scene within minutes, no matter the time of day, have literally saved my life twice in the last ten years and there hasn't been a murmur about "dues. In our case they are funded by a property tax assessment and donations, rather than dues, but our good volunteers wouldn't think of not doing their job because of money.

If this went down as it is reported, this is a criminal act. The other side of the coin is that this shows how we need to take care of the folks who take care of us.

Michael Frazier
354 posted on 02/17/2006 8:02:59 AM PST by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
I repeat: this volunteer fire department was not a government entity. Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend? Are you a Bolshevik or something?

Without stooping to name calling - you obviously are having trouble grasping MY point - there should not be a need for "private" fire departments in this country, anymore than there should be a need for "private" sheriffs.

If an area can't provide their own police protection - the township, county or state steps in and takes care of it.(obviously not for free) Why should fire protection be any different?

Do people band together and hire a private police force? When you get robbed do you have to prove to the police that you have paid your dues before they will go after the robber? How is that any different?

355 posted on 02/17/2006 8:03:11 AM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: brazzaville

Even if it was a meth lab operation?


I'm not saying it was. The possibility exists though.


356 posted on 02/17/2006 8:04:38 AM PST by listenhillary ("Mainstream media" is creating it's own reality~everything sucks)
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To: Tokra
If an area can't provide their own police protection - the township, county or state steps in and takes care of it.(obviously not for free) Why should fire protection be any different?

Okay, so you want to pass a law saying what?

All state governments must provide fire protection to all residents?

Or all county governments?

Or what?

What is the law you obviously want to pass going to say?

357 posted on 02/17/2006 8:06:04 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam Factoid:After forcing young girls to watch his men execute their fathers, Muhammad raped them.)
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To: Tokra

"Do people band together and hire a private police force?"

Yes they do in a way. They are called security. Money changes hands between the person wanting to secure their premises and assets and the person(s) wanting to provide that service.

When you get robbed, the police come out, investigate and try to find the perpetrator. Maybe they find them and MAYBE you get your property back. When you hire security, they stop the robbery from occurring in the first place.


358 posted on 02/17/2006 8:10:37 AM PST by listenhillary ("Mainstream media" is creating it's own reality~everything sucks)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Everbody understands that a fire department needs to be paid for, and by the people who benefit from it. That's not the point.

This is a not a fire department. If it were a fire department they would put out fires instead of standing around watching them.

Note that they deployed anyway. Obviously, whoever he called had his address, and they'd have immediately known whether he'd paid his protection money or not. But they deployed anyway. Why bother?

If I lived in the area, I'd have paid my protection money, but I would have also taken steps to install my own water tank and firefighting equipment, since the fire department is obviously of questionable dependability. Anybody that lives there is only one clerical error away from having their payment "lost".


359 posted on 02/17/2006 8:11:17 AM PST by Ramius (Buy blades for war fighters: freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net --> 1000 knives and counting!)
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To: robertpaulsen
Good morning.
"I doubt he would pay the much larger bill for putting out the fire."

If the guy lost everything in the fire the fire department allowed to burn, you can be sure he won't pay now.

Michael Frazier
360 posted on 02/17/2006 8:13:09 AM PST by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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