Their Own Version of a Big Bang: A creative & effective challenge to the "science" of Darwinism

LA Times ^ | 11 Feb 2006 | Stephanie Simon

[Greg o the Navy]

WAYNE, N.J. — Evangelist Ken Ham smiled at the 2,300 elementary students packed into pews, their faces rapt. With dinosaur puppets and silly cartoons, he was training them to reject much of geology, paleontology and evolutionary biology as a sinister tangle of lies.

[Non-Sequitur]

How large would an ark have to be to carry every species on earth...and a food supply for over a month?

Read Genesis again, they were on the boat for closer to seven or eight months. Two of every unclean animal, seven of every clean animal, all food and supplies for them and Noah's family, on a boat 300 cubits by 50 cubits (450 feet by 75 feet). And for that 8 month period the earth was completely covered not only by water, but by salt water. I'm not a farmer but if memory serves flooding an area with salt water tends to destroy it's ability to grow anything. So here is poor Noah, stuck on a boat with all those stinking animals for months, landing in a world without any water to drink or any land to grow things on. And 5000 years or so later here we all are. And evolution is supposed to have holes in it?

[Havoc]

If time, matter and energy really are tied to one another, all of them are winding down from a prior higher state according to the laws of thermodynamics. This would seem to obliterate the concept of the existance of constants from my point of view. And I fully agree that from our point of view trying to employ constants where we really should be employing variable decay rates, the appearance would be one of expansion moving backward and contracting moving forward. It would not be actuarial, it would be an appearance based on our false current paradigm. Point of view is everything in comparing the two models.

Variability rather than constancy must be the case else the laws of thermodaynamics would fail.

[Non-Sequitur]

The Bible tells of the ark being a 100 yr project.

Where? Genesis says that Noah was 500 years old when he begot his three boys, and 600 when the floodwaters hit. Somewhere in there God commanded him to build the Ark. It could have been a 99 year project or a 10 year project, the Bible doesn't say.

When I was 7 yrs old, it was my job to feed hay, in the winter, to 40 cows in our barn, bed them down with fresh straw, and see to it the water trough was filled,....after school.

Do that for two of every unclean animal and seven of every clean animal and we'll talk.

[Non-Sequitur]

You're digressing. Irrelevant.

Why is that irrelevant? The Bible is very specific that Joshua made the Sun stand still and extended the day. The Bible says that the Sun revolves around the Earth. Is the Bible correct or not?

[Havoc]

We're not so far apart then. Taking your observation a little further, you're led to ask the question of "who or what put everything here". Knowing there had to have been a date certain beginning of time energy and space and knowing that life didn't just arrise from nothing, that ultimately leads to a supreme being or creator. You also have to arrive at that point due to the nature of information, which is the approach of ID.

Once you realize there must have been a creator, you also realize there is no way there could not have been. You can get that far based on observation and logic. From there, you're led to a search for who has the truth about said God.. if anyone.

[Non-Sequitur]

One, it wouldn't take that much to flood the entire earth even today. A few feet rise in the seas would swamp most of the land masses as they exist today. You're assumption is that the land looked prior to the flood the way it looks now. That is your assumption.

A little over 97% of all water on Earth is salt water. Flood the entire Earth and you will pollute the fresh water with salt and leave nothing for Noah and the animals to drink once the water receded. How did they survive?

[From many - one.]

Both.

Take a look in our graduate schools.
Also, cruise pubmed and see where the most solid papers are coming from. It's disconcerting.

[Raycpa]

Job 38:4 (King James Version)

4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

[Oztrich Boy]

I thought the article was about Ken Ham. Are you calling him a jerk?

I will

[From many - one.]

It is also a little known fact that the prophet Chihuly (Parmesan Be Upon Him), has captured this act of creation at Mayo Clinic:

If the doubt devils interfere with the image, Click here

[Raycpa]

This passage demonstrates a protest, not just against the scientific method, but against the process of reasoning in general, and therefore against all the progress in human history that results therefrom

No, he is talking to an audience that know scripture. These are God's words to Job.

[Raycpa]

Where does it say the sun revolves arund the earth in the following text that you are citing:


10:12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

[Raycpa]

Flood the entire Earth and you will pollute the fresh water with salt and leave nothing for Noah and the animals to drink once the water receded. How did they survive?

When I was a kid we would take fish from the sea that could only survive in salt water along with the sea water. They always died. Why is that?

[Non-Sequitur]

Where does it say the sun revolves arund the earth in the following text that you are citing...

Continue please, the next two chapters.

"So the sun stood still, And the moon stopped, Till the people had revenge Upon their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. And there has been no day like that, before it or after it, that the LORD heeded the voice of a man; for the LORD fought for Israel."

The Sun stood still and did not go down. The Bible doesn't say that the Earth stopped revolving or the Earth stood still, it said the Sun stood still. If one is expected to take the Bible literally, as people around here claim, then one must accept that the Bible says the Sun revolves around the Earth. So when do we take on those Astronomy agnostics and their garbage science?

[Raycpa]

It just says the sun stood still in the sky. You do understand the meaning of "heaven" in that context don't you?

[Raycpa]

Number 8064
Transliteration:
shamayim {shaw-mah'-yim}
Word Origin:
dual of an unused singular shameh from an unused root meaning to be lofty
TDNT:
2407a
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
heaven 398, air 21, astrologers 01895 1

Total: 420
Definition:

1. heaven, heavens, sky
1. visible heavens, sky
1. as abode of the stars
2. as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc
2. Heaven (as the abode of God)

TDNT - Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT - Theological Word Book of the Old Testament

[Non-Sequitur]

And your point is? Are you saying that the Bible is not to be taken literally but is open to interpretation? That would seem to place you at odds with the gentleman mentioned in the article that started this thread, wouldn't it?

[wintertime]

Creationists are no better than the Taliban and Al Quaeda

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

So...let's look at government schools:

Government schools WILL establish the political, cultural, and moral-ethical worldview of the biggest political bully. They can never be neutral in content or consequences. Are you so foolish as to think that your favored political bully will always control the agenda?

Remember any government school powerful enough to use the threat of armed police to collect the taxes and compel attendance to support your agenda, is also powerful enough to force an abhorrent agenda on you and your family.

Evolution has RELIGIOUS consequences for many. If you can not see this then you are being deliberately dense. It is parents, teachers, and principals in private schools who should be addressing how this topic is presented to children.

Also...even if a child were to have NO biology instruction at all. This is not a catastrophe. If a young adult can make up the deficiency on the community college level by taking a 3 month non-credit course, then evolution does NOT justify using the threat of armed police to FORCE taxpayers to pay for it or to FORCE children into government schools.

My own children were homeschooled. They had NO formal science education whatsoever. Yet,,,they entered college at the ages of 13, 12, and 13 and two have graduated at the age of 18 with B.S. degrees in math. One at 20, had earned a masters degree in math. Plenty of science in that program!

How did they do it?

Answer: They took the non-credit science courses first, then the science courses for arts majors, and finally the highest level of courses for science majors.

If my kids can do this at the ages of 13, 12, and 13, then other kids can to. It is NOT soooooo important to the welfare of that child that evolution be shoved down his throat by threat of armed police action. Ditto for taxpayers.

Government schools crush freedom of conscience. They are an abomination. The solution is to begin the process of separating SCHOOL and state.

[wintertime]

He doesn't engage in the political and legal fights that have erupted over the teaching of evolution. His strategy is more subtle: He aims to give people who trust the biblical account of creation the confidence to defend their views — aggressively. ( From the article)

To All,

If he really wanted to do some good, he'd be encouraging the churches he visits to open free private schools for their parishioners.

[Raycpa]

You are interpreting beyond what the text says. The text is a witness statement. The witness is that the sun ceased moving across the sky at a place called Gibeon.

You extrapolated from the witness statement and made an assumption that the sun stood still in the universe. The text doesn't really say how this event occurred.

Did God stop time at this place? Did God stop the earth? Did God speed up time for them? Did God freeze the sky?

Your's is speculation and not what is considered literal translation.

A literal translation would have to conclude simply the following: It happened but how it happened is not clear.