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NSA Spying Program Debated by Conservatives
GOPUSA ^ | February 10, 2006 | Monisha Bansal (CNS News)

Posted on 02/11/2006 2:38:12 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks

(CNSNews.com) -- Demanding that "the leaders of this country abide by the laws of this country," former U.S. Rep. Bob Barr lashed out Thursday at the Bush administration over the National Security Agency's domestic surveillance program. Barr debated the legality of the surveillance with former U.S. Assistant Attorney General Viet Dinh, who served in the administration of President George H. W. Bush.

In December, the country discovered that President Bush authorized the National Security Agency (NSA) to tap international telephone calls that included one party suspected of terrorist activity. Since that time the program has been heavily criticized and its legality has been called into question, with the Bush administration defending the program at every turn.

"If al Qaeda is calling the United States, or the United States is calling al Qaeda, I hope someone in our government is listening in," said Dinh, who is currently a professor at Georgetown Law School. "In my mind, it just makes common sense."

Dinh said the timing of the domestic surveillance proved that the measure was necessary.

"Conservatism has a healthy skepticism of governmental power. At times, unfortunately, that healthy skepticism needs to yield to threats that are facing our nation. That threat today is real. We all recall Osama Bin Laden's voice a couple of weeks ago on Al Jazeera. As you know there are people whose brutality and fatality cannot be doubted."

Dinh noted that it is reasonable to stop someone near the border, to stop drunk drivers and to test high school athletes for illegal drugs. "These are special circumstances that otherwise make a broad-based program of search reasonable," he said.

"It is by definition, therefore, that a targeted terrorist surveillance program at a time of national security threat and war is reasonable under the president's constitutional authority," Dinh added.

While Barr agreed that the surveillance program should be legal, he questioned whether President Bush had complied with the 1978 Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), requiring him to first receive a court order before ordering the spying.

"What we cannot ignore is a debate about the future of the Bill of Rights, the foundation of our civilization in this country. That cannot wait another day," said Barr.

"No one in this country, whether elected to public office or not, can take it upon themselves to ignore a law.

"There are remedies," Barr said, "if in fact, any administration believes the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act does not comport with proper constitutional standards as they see it, or because a law does not afford sufficient flexibility to address the specific needs that an administration faces."

Barr concluded by asking whether America is in danger of "putting allegiance to party ahead of allegiance to principle.

"We must demand that the leaders of this country abide by the laws of this country," he said.

Copyright © 1998-2005 CNSNews.com - Cybercast News Service


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 4thamendment; barrisaflamingidiot; bobbarr; cpac; homelandsecurity; nsa; spying; surveillance; vietdinh
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1 posted on 02/11/2006 2:38:13 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
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To: TxDOT; 1066AD; 185JHP; Abcdefg; Alamo-Girl; antivenom; anymouse; AprilfromTexas; B-Chan; barkeep; ..

PING!


2 posted on 02/11/2006 2:40:13 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Now is the time for all good customes agents in Tiajunna to come to the aid of their stuned beebers!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Iran and the USA are both on suicide missions.....

but for different reasons.

You can't kill the terrorists if you don't know where they are.

The terrorists are painting bullseyes on themselves.

Why are certain Americans so stupid?

I know why the terrorists are so stupid!

3 posted on 02/11/2006 2:41:22 PM PST by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN (expell the fat arrogant carcasses of Congress)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Nothing wrong with debate. Let the left make their case for not spying on the bad guys.

Regarding warrant-less searches of American citizens, and without probable cause, it happens all the time. Just go through security at any airport or federal building.
4 posted on 02/11/2006 2:43:28 PM PST by joonbug
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To: CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
What's wrong with getting a warrant?
5 posted on 02/11/2006 2:47:23 PM PST by Doe Eyes
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Bob Barr lost his conservative creds when he became a wh#re for the ACLU.


6 posted on 02/11/2006 2:49:33 PM PST by peyton randolph (As long is it does me no harm, I don't care if one worships Elmer Fudd.)
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To: Doe Eyes
Ain't no time when you are after a terrorist and there is NO NEED for a warrant if one is doing intelligence on foreign enemies. But then I guess we could have gotten a warrant to survey the Nazi and the Japanese. If Al Qaeda is calling someone in the US I would suspect that they are with the organization and need to be monitored. But then if they are not and set off a nuke then the people would want to know why we did not monitor.
7 posted on 02/11/2006 2:52:30 PM PST by YOUGOTIT
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To: Doe Eyes
whether President Bush had complied with the 1978 Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), requiring him to first receive a court order before ordering the spying.

As repeatedly asserted by all Presidents from Carter to the present, and per judicial precedent on the issue, to the extent that FISA limits the President's constitutional powers as C-in-C, FISA is unconstitutional.

8 posted on 02/11/2006 2:52:57 PM PST by peyton randolph (As long is it does me no harm, I don't care if one worships Elmer Fudd.)
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To: Doe Eyes
What's wrong with getting a warrant?

A lot of the terrorists are using disposable cell phones. Make 5 phone calls and throw it away. The courts cannot keep up with such authorizations. They cannot move quick enough. Anyhow the President can authorize such phone surveillance completely apart from the FISA court process. Clinton and others did it

9 posted on 02/11/2006 2:53:38 PM PST by dennisw ("What one man can do another can do" - The Edge)
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To: YOUGOTIT
Ain't no time when you are after a terrorist

Who says? I haven't seen this case made.

there is NO NEED for a warrant if one is doing intelligence on foreign enemies.

I think we are talking about tapping phones in America. We have a Constitution, and our Government is bound by it.

10 posted on 02/11/2006 2:56:05 PM PST by Doe Eyes
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To: Doe Eyes
What's wrong with getting a warrant?

It's too slow.
It's too hard.
It requires someone who can write.
It's not easy to use against a political enemy.
It's not easy to use as a pick-up line.
It's no fun.

11 posted on 02/11/2006 2:57:33 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doe Eyes
We have a Constitution, and our Government is bound by it.

Many consider the Constitution to be a Living Document and subject to the whim of The Government.

12 posted on 02/11/2006 2:59:09 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doe Eyes
I think we are talking about tapping phones in America. We have a Constitution, and our Government is bound by it.

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. We're talking intercepting international phone calls...not tapping phones of U.S. citizens. Constitution has never been held to prohibit interception of international communications. Been done (letters, telegraphs, etc.) since the days of President Washington.

13 posted on 02/11/2006 3:01:01 PM PST by peyton randolph (As long is it does me no harm, I don't care if one worships Elmer Fudd.)
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To: Doe Eyes
9/11 Commission: FISA Too Slow!
14 posted on 02/11/2006 3:01:42 PM PST by sono (Ted Kennedy's naming his dog Splash is like Jack Abramoff naming his dog Bribe.)
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To: Doe Eyes
The president has inherent powers to defend this nation from enemy threat that have already been tested in the federal courts. His powers are constitutional and well grounded therein. It is FISA that is unconstitutional, not NSA actions.

There is nothing wrong with getting a warrant, in the right context. But when you are fighting a war, the need for quick action is essential and that is why this power is vested in the executive branch, the president.

There are some conservatives so called that have such distrust of the government they will turn the constitution into a suicide pact. Barr, in my opinion, has lost his bearings, and is not even thinking rationally.

15 posted on 02/11/2006 3:01:43 PM PST by el_texicano (Liberals, Socialist, DemocRATS, all touchy, feely, mind numbed robots, useless idiots all)
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To: Doe Eyes
"I think we are talking about tapping phones in America. We have a Constitution, and our Government is bound by it."

We have tapped NO phones in the US unless the call came from outside the country. And the Constitution gives the power to the President to do this in time of war. Of course if you want the terrorist to win then you are supported by a bunch of anti-American left-wing fascist democrats senators.
16 posted on 02/11/2006 3:02:54 PM PST by YOUGOTIT
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
It's legal. Read all about it.

US Code Title 50 Chapter 36 Subchapter I Sec 1802

US Code Title 50 Chapter 36 Subchapter I Sec 1801

I don't know why these sections are not being referred to.

17 posted on 02/11/2006 3:03:52 PM PST by Right_Handed_Writer
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To: YOUGOTIT
We have tapped NO phones in the US unless the call came from outside the country.

Government is not tapping phones in the U.S. It is intercepting international communications using satellites and other neat gadgets. No one is showing up on the doorstep of a U.S. citizen's home and tapping his phone...or even tapping the line at the phone co. either. No need to.

18 posted on 02/11/2006 3:06:15 PM PST by peyton randolph (As long is it does me no harm, I don't care if one worships Elmer Fudd.)
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To: Right_Handed_Writer

Has the Executive Branch complied with this?


19 posted on 02/11/2006 3:08:11 PM PST by Doe Eyes
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To: Doe Eyes
What's wrong with getting a warrant?

First off we are at war - You don't go around getting warrant's in war! (though plenty of JAGs are asking for just this in both Iraq and Stan to a large degree!..God help us).

Additionally....our CIC does not need to get a warrant with regard to gathering Intel on foreign enemies.

The reality is the FISA court itself is likely unconstitutional....in that it gave too much power to the Congress (of which of course the Congress does not want to give back....Those 435 members are all power hog putzes).

Furthermore you can't get a warrant for an event that hasn't taken place....nor do you know "to where" it will take place until after the fact. Nor once it does take place can we afford to make such information public with regard to "leaks" that will certainly come from such "after the fact FISA type warrants".

The proof of such leaks being that this NSA operation itself was leaked!

20 posted on 02/11/2006 3:10:37 PM PST by SevenMinusOne
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