In Praise of FR's freedom - from a progressive

Earlier thread by this poster under another name before he was banned, linked above also:

Yaa, you repukes are not doing so well, huh? Imagine, you repukes control the presidency, both houses of Congress, and appointed 7 of the 9 Supreme Court justices. Yet the Supreme Court thre out sodomy laws in all 50 states and recognized the right of government to seize land for any reason. And you couldn't pass your Social Security changes could you? Sorry, that was your last shot. Come November, we're going to start seeing more Democratic faces in the House. It's the end for you guys. You guys are celebrating when Bush's numbers go *up* to 45%. Then Faux News trumpets this like it's some kind of victory.

I should add I am not a Democrat, I am a communist. And I know one day the workers will control the means of production, and all the capitalist idle class parasites you guys love will be eliminated as a class. But I also recognize, like the CPUSA, sometimes you must enter a front with the liberals for tactical reasons. We had fun sticking it to the liberals with Nader and the Greens in 2000, 2002 and 2004, but this year we're switching gears. Evo Morales in Bolivia, Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, plus all are other Latin American comrades, and the Left Party in Germany, the Socialist Party in Spain pulling the troops out of Iraq. It's a come back for the workers of the world, BIG TIME. Sorry to all you capitalists and sycophants, or Jesus-believing loonies.

Oh yaa - Bye bye Tom Delay. We control nothing in the government, yet we still control so much! Gramsci was right to make a long march through the institutions. Too bad your shot at power amounted to so little! At least you got your estate tax cut...for a few years anyhow.

The first thing I will say up front - I am a progressive, not a conservative. This message is about the freedom of Free Republic, versus the party line of Democratic Underground.

If you look at Democratic Underground's rules ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html ), one is "Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates." Note, this doesn't say Republicans, this doesn't say "progressive candidates", it says Democratic candidates, period. Now let's compare this to Free Republic's posting guidelines ( http://www.freerepublic.com/help.htm ) - "Broadly stated, the goals of this site are to further conservatism, expose political corruption, and recover a truly constitutional form of government." No mention of the Republican Party. No jihad against you if you make up your mind to vote for Pertouka. No "party line" from the Republican leadership. Significantly, even though DU and FR are compared often, that is a (unofficial) Democratic Party site, you are a conservative site.

I just made two posts saying positive things about the Green party, talking about how people like Clinton and Kerry do not represent working class people and so forth. This was after 200+ posts there by me on other topics. Both of my threads were locked and I was directed to the above mentioned rules, which say those who don't follow the Democratic Party line are not welcome. I then posted a thread saying Free Republic had more freedom of expression than Democratic Underground, and that that was a shame. That was erased.

While my discussion of this was banned on DU, I don't think it will be banned here. I can't believe I am more free to discuss my support of the Greens, or talk about freedom of political discussion on Free Republic than Democratic Underground. And as I said before, the fact that you are a conservative site, not a official or unofficial Republican Party site is probably due to this. The party that runs the White House, Congress and 7 of 9 Supreme Court seats allows people to support Pertouka over Bush on its main political board. The main discussion board for people of the progressive movement declares all must follow the Democratic Party line, and any other discussion is locked and erased. I've even seen people banned before.

This is not going to make me a conservative or Republican. I am a working class person and hate capitalists. Note, I hate capitalists, not conservatives. I know plenty of conservatives, but am not a regular at the mansions of wealthy heirs. Anyhow, my point is this will not make me like capitalism any more, but I am very fed up with the Democrats and places like DU. They restrict freedom, make people follow a party line - and lose. You allow discussion, allow people to choose between Pertouka, Bush and whatnot - and win. Very sad.

I should close this by saying I agree with nothing the Republicans or conservatives are for - except one thing. I am a complete supporter of the Second Amendment. I have been on the left for a long time and the scariest people around are the gun control people. Not the soccer moms who the leaders of gun control people try to appeal to, but the leaders themselves, the people who want more and more gun control. I have heard people like this talk about how they are scared that people up in Appalachia and in the South have so many guns. I am always puzzled like this. For myself, I feel pretty SAFE knowing people in Appalachia, the South and so forth have guns. Why would someone be scared that the working people in rural areas have rifles, shotguns and so forth? The people who say this usually aren't working class people, they are usually liberal yuppie types. So all you second amendment supporters - you're more right than you know, if you heard how these people talk, you'd be more freaked out by all this gun control stuff than you probably already are. The gun control people are the creepiest, scariest people on the left and in the Democratic party. Meaning not the soccer moms and so forth they try to appeal to, but the people masterminding the fight on that. In fact, if you look at DU polls - many many DUers are more pro-2nd amendment than pro-gun control. So who are these gun control people? So keep fighting on this, at least one party supports the 2nd Amendment. Other than this, I don't agree with conservatives or Republicans on anything, especially in terms of the working class. Hopefully this post will shame some DU admin into allowing more freedom of expression for progressives there. You guys can discuss problems in the conservative movement while we can't - we're only allowed to praise the Democratic party, otherwise, hit the road. I hope I shame some DU admin into making changes with this, but I doubt I will.

I did not get spanked on the stock market. I broke even. I came out with exactly what I put into it, it was a very zen thing. I did have a net worth of $70,000 plus $40,000 of options vesting in July 2000 for a few days. That disappeared and I was left with my original investment. I didn't lose my original investment though, I broke even.

And I don't blame Buffett and Lynch at all! If I hadn't read them I probably WOULD have lost everything. Reading Lynch is what made me decide to sell in spring of 2000. I don't like Lynch's book Learn to Earn, but I thought then and think now his other books are good.

I am not a trust fund kid by any means, my father was a construction worker.

I have this vision of Ron Paul chatting about his impractical Utopian theories to his captors as he is lead away by the Chinese, Islamic, whatever fascists, after they subdue the US, which has bought into the idea that a strong military, and a strong defense, and proactive measures to root out the toxic tentacles, and a tax system to pay for it, is just a straw man for repressive big government. Ron Paul will be the first to go.

Here is what I observe: many have taken up discourse with him, and we have seen him to not be an outright "stinking Commie" nor a "troll". A troll would post something offensive, and never return. Meanwhile you are going ballistic, and I'm sure if you haven't already that you will be hitting abuse on every one of his posts to try to get rid of him. Sad really that you let such things get to you. You are in the minority here, and while your world falls around you others are enjoying themselves talking to your commie troll. I just call it as I see it.

In any case I have no real hope of changing your mind, just of seeing how often you'll respond to me with another high powered shrill comment on him being a commie, how you hate commies and so forth.

We are here to change minds, and if not then why not just close the site, find a nice tunnel with good reverb, and shout your opinions in it so they'll echo back to you.

Well, I am up late tonight, writing. Meanwhile, here is yet a "thought-provoking" thread you are missing over at DU:

"Hey! Greens suck donkey dicks" by a DU poster with 1,000 posts, whose icon is a photo of Howard Dean.

Entire text content of his post:

Crazy Guggenheim (1000+ posts)
Tue Feb-07-06 01:31 AM
Original message

Hey! Greens suck donkey dicks!

Umm, I know a good number of working class capitalists. Capitalism is a system that rewards hard work and taking risks. If it weren't for that, none of the things we have would exist.

So think about that some. Should someone who takes risks, works hard, and is smart, be rewarded more than someone who just likes putting in his 40 hrs ? Or should we all be miserable ? 'Cause that's what your socialist bull is advocating.

I leave you witha final thought :

"Those too afraid to go after their own dreams will stop at nothing to ruin the dreams of those who aren't".

The WOOBBLIES never did work out, nor did they change America.

You hate what you don't understand at all. You actually hate yourself and still are unable and unwilling to see that.

Your views are outdated, don't work, and have been a scourge to many; the ruination of nations.

No, you wont go "a little to the right", should you finally "make it"; you'll just be another cretinous LIMOUSINE LIBERAL POS.

I don't work on Wall Street any more.

As I said in another message, I didn't lose money in the stock market. I broke even. The bubble and the crash just gave me a jittery feeling, as if the market was not a logical thing. I had been reading left-wing stuff before that, but that got me really reading Krugman etc.

The crash did not come as a surprise to me. Reading Peter Lynch, I knew stocks would crash. And I did not lose money - I am not bitter about it. OK, I'm a little unhappy my stocks went up to $70k and I didn't sell at the top. But I didn't lose money.

The crash was not a surprise. The surprise was how looooong the crash was, the recession and so forth. And I do not blame Bush, I really don't. I mean, the stock market crashed before Bush came in. To put it more simply, I do not like the boom/bust cycle.

Here is what I observe: you are a fringer, a minority here, who can't stand it. So, you welcome, with open arms, an avowed MARXIST, who writes in such a way, as to lull you ( perhaps give you hope, that you can charm him to be on your side ) and others, into a PC, touchy-feely, let's all form a circle, hold hands, and sing KUMBYA. All the while, completely ignoring that the n00b has repeatedly said things that are so far LEFT, so error filled, so mind numbingly STUPID, that any Conservative would want to get rid of him ASAP!

I'm far from "going ballistic"; dear. LOL

Unlike your world, mine is just fine and dandy. President Bush got Roberts and Alito on the SCOTUS, we're doing well in Iraq and make steady progress, the IslamoNazis are making the Europeans made as a wet hen at them all, and I'm laughing at your posts, with such hilarity, that I really must tone it down, or I'll wake my husband. :-)

Very, very interesting. I lost my shirt in '01. And sure made me a *FAR* better investor. I don't buy overpriced and crazy valuated securities anymore (if anyone's wondering what I'm talking about, see stock ticker GOOG).

But - I have an education (personal choice), a drive (personal choice) and a will to succeed (personal choice). And, if someone earns more than me, I ask, what can *I* do to make that kind of money ? (if that is one's personal goal, which, technically, is not my primary goal - but a means to an different end).

So how's capitalism bad ? I grew up in a socialist country. Let me tell you - there, if you're not a really bright kid or a very bright/hard working college student you dig ditches. And you like it, or the "authorities" send you interesting places called things liek "naked island", which makes Alcatraz look like Club Med or Gitmo like Sandals. So - thank you luck stars for your opportunity you own this system, and stop taking everything for granted, for nothing comes free. There's no free lunch.

Well, the boom-bust is all caused by greed, and with human nature, you'll always have greed. It's a cycle, up and down, just like nature has it's seasons. If everything was flat all the time, with no variation, how dull would that be?? (This coming from someone in California, where it's summer everyday - or so they say - I'm freezing my a$$ off right now!! So much for global warming!!)

Yes, it's late, I've got to turn in, more working for the man in store for me. Hey, wait a minute, I'm a public employee, that means I work for YOU!!! You mean, evil boss, making me get up in the morning and bust my butt!!! You ought to be ashamed!!!!! (Oh, I am another former shop steward, business manager of our local. Just try and go to a LIUNA public employee convention and let everyone know you are a republican now - Talk about fun!!!)

G'night all!

In my definition of capitalism, being my own boss would put me outside of the system of capitalism. But even if we do call that capitalism, my problem with capitalism is the existence of the relationship between a worker and a boss/employer.

sheeeesh!!! you really are confused. methinks you've confused reading with learning. First, in a (relatively) free society, everyone is 'their own boss.' No matter their endeavor, they are only renting or selling their own capital (sweat, energy, brain power, creativity, beauty, charm, etc) on a daily basis under terms they agree to. Secondly, nobody is ever their own boss unless liveing on a deserted island and being completely self sufficient to fulfill needs and desires. You're still going to have all kinds of 'bosses' telling you what and how you produce whatever it is you are selling. The only real choices you have is which of your 'capital assets' you choose to sell and whether your bosses have faces at one extreme or you only know them through the reams of regulations you must bow to at the other extreme. I think you will shortly find that your new bosses are even less personable and far more uncaring than your old bosses. That's what's going to turn you into a raving conservative.

But seriously, as though that wasn't, since you value honesty so much, you're going to have to get a whole lot more honest with yourself about how the world works and how people interact and your own issues (ref. boss/employee relationships) if you're ever going to be a productive member of any society (i.e. a successful capitalist)

I hope I shame some DU admin into making changes with this, but I doubt I will.

Just have to add my voice to the others. . 'they will not change. .

Their fear and response to dissent is firmly rooted in their marxist thinking. . .which in turn is rooted in the totalitarian mindset. It is what it is. . .

Hope someday, you might pick up a copy of David Horowitz's 'Radical Son'. . .he was 'born of communist parents'. . .and he was a committed marxist; worked for the Black Panthers post graduation from Berkely and 'European foot tour'. . .so to speak. .

His shift from the Left began with some doubts expressed i.e. 'dissent' and how it was received; and culminated when his friend who was hired- per his recomendation - as Bookeeper for Black Panthers and subsequently was murdered (by BP's). . ..

You can check his latest activities at his website. . .'Frontpage Magazine'. . .should you want to, of course. . .

If you like humor. . you might enjoy 'Eat the Rich' by P.J. O'Rourke. . .another former Leftie. . .oh well; always worth a try ;^)

I do not like the boom/bust cycle.

All of life is boom and bust.

Once we are young and once we are old.

This is the key, you have to go 100% to get to the answer. If you stop at 75% thinking you have the answer, you will never finish the equation.

You are thinking and I respect that. Don't stop at 75%.

Remember the 5 stages to grief.

Denial

Anger

Bargaining, which is where you are at.

Depression

Acceptance.

Don't stop, keep thinking, you're goal is 100%. You will be a Conservative and a Capitalist.

I didn't make clear enough earlier that I broke even, and didn't lose money, but I explained in a message after this one that I did.

I'll skip the overabundance of capital in the stock market to talk about something related that ex-GE CEO actually said. What he says fits in with my notion of the economy being "broken"

Jack Welch on Hardball

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:[...] Jack, what’s your take on when this economy is going to turn around?

WELCH: ...You’ve got global capacity everywhere. ...There are plants all over China that just built 20 million things that are coming in to this or that, so pricing pressure is what we’re facing. The reason why jobs are tough is not volume. The reason why jobs are tough is there’s no profitability.

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