Posted on 02/01/2006 3:42:08 PM PST by John Jorsett
Why do American troops prefer the century old .45 caliber pistol to lighter 9mm models. It’s all about “stopping power.” As far back as 1900, during the fighting against Moslem rebels in the Philippines, there had been complaints of enemy fighters getting shot and continuing to attack. From this experience, the then standard army pistol, a .38 caliber (9.65mm) weapon, was replaced by a .45 caliber (11.4mm) one. In the 1980s, the .45 was in turn replaced by a 9mm pistol. There were a lot of complaints about that, but 90 years of experience demonstrated that you should not depend on a pistol in the heat of combat. But that was largely European experience, in major wars. In these conditions, pistols were rarely used in desperate battles. The fighting in Iraq reminded everyone that, especially in urban combat, a pistol was still an essential weapon. Going into buildings, troops would often prefer to have one or two guys holding pistols, as these could get into action faster if you were in cramped and crowded conditions. At close range, you didn’t want someone with a gun, or a knife, to require a second shot. And at ranges measured in a few feet, you couldn’t miss. If the enemy was amped up, you wanted to take him down with one shot, because there might not be time for a second. Many police SWAT teams have stayed with the .45 for the same reason.
The M1911 was better at stopping people, and that was mainly due to the size of the bullet. Technically, the “hitting power” of a bullet is determined by the bullet weight and velocity, and is measured in joules. The widely used 9mm Parabellum generated 583 joules, the Russian 7.62mm Tokarev (mainly used to execute cowardly soldiers, POWs or uncooperative civilians) produced 499 joules, while the .45 (11.4mm) only came up with 450 joules. But there's a major problem in just using joules, and that is how much of that energy is actually applied to the person being hit. A smaller, faster bullet has a tendency to just go through someone. This does damage, often fatal damage, but if often does not slow down a highly energized soldier. A larger bullet, especially a blunt one, will be more effective at "stopping" someone. Thus the popularity of the .45 caliber pistol round. Although it has less energy than the 9mm round (450 joules compared to 583), those who have used both insist that the .45 is far more effective than the smaller and faster 9mm. Part of this has to do with the fact that the .45 (11.4mm) bullet hits with a 60 percent larger (as seen head on) area, thus it applied more of that energy to the target. This explains the greater likelihood of the .45 caliber bullet "knocking down" whoever it hits. The same physics applies to rifle bullets (although they tend to have pointy tips, unlike the blunter ones for pistol pullets.) A 7.62mm bullet is 88 percent larger (head on) than a 5.56mm one.
Even before the Department of Defense decided to switch back to the .45, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the U.S. Marine Corps went and got .45 caliber pistols for use as an “alternative” to the standard 9mm M9. SOCOM was never happy with the 9mm's pistol's stopping power, even in the very limited scenarios, such as terrorist hostage rescue, where they can legally use 9mm hollow-point ammunition for increased effectiveness. SOCOM went out and developed the HK Mark23 Mod 0 SOCOM "offensive" handgun weapons system. This weapon, based on a popular H&K design, is 1.53 inches wide, 5.9 inches high and 9.65 inches long. It weighs 2.42 pounds empty and uses ten or twelve round magazines. The original M1911 is 8.25 inches long, 5.25 inches high, 1.5 inches wide and weighs 2.44 pounds empty (add .4 pounds for a loaded, seven round, magazine). Some 2.7 million M1911s have been manufactured so far, 1.9 million of them during World War II. Some 650,000 of the new U.S. .45 caliber pistols are expected to be manufactured initially.
The U.S. Marine Corps have been using M1911s rebuilt from the many old ones turned in when everyone switched to the M9. But this supply is running out, and the marines have been eager to see the 9mm M9 pistol replaced with a new .45 caliber model. Some marines (and other troops) buy these newer .45 caliber weapons with their own money. Most American combat units tolerate troops bringing in some additional weapons, especially pistols. Some troops have been buying 10mm pistols, seeing this as a nice cross between the lighter weight of the M9 (2.55 pounds versus three for the .45) and the greater stopping power of the 11.4mm M1911 bullet. But there are new .45 models that weigh as much as the M9, carry more bullets (10) and are easier to repair than the M1911.
The SOCOM Mk 23 may not be a prime candidate for the new standard pistol. That’s because the Mk 23 is a large weapon. A new “standard .45” will be used by a wide variety of troops, including women (who have smaller hands.) It is possible to make smaller .45s. One of the smallest currently available is the Glock Model 37. This .45 caliber pistol is 7.32 inches long, 5.51 inches high and 1.18 inches wide. It’s 1.63 pounds empty, and 2.22 pounds with a ten round magazine. Glock began making .45 caliber pistols in the early 1990s, and has steadily improved that design. There are smaller .45s than these Glocks, but none that are as sturdy and reliable. So it is possible to get a smaller .45 design that will be as robust as the original M1911.
My any fair measure the Model 1911A has got to rank in the top tier of works of genius. Not merely superbly functional and famously reliable, it is a timless work of art as well.
That was using a cornstalk. No telling how much damage he could have done with a gun.
A buddy of mine who used to be in Special Forces in Viet Nam told me once "If you're down to fighting with handguns, you're in deep sh!t." Hard to argue with him on that point.
fyi
little guys aim low!!!
Now your talkin'!!
The 5.56 is OK in hollow or ballistic point if you get a good shot. I routinely pop coyotes with it in a 56 grain hollow point. Very few take a second shot.
My hunting rifle is a 7mm Rem Mag (0.284) and I usually shoot a 150 grain Nosler partition for deer and other smaller game. Elk take 175 grain. Over 150 yards I have never had a round exit a mule deer, but the damage is sufficient enough to not let the animal suffer.
Ooohhh, a Singer! I'll give ya a hundred bucks for it!!
:>)
Multiple reasons, none of them valid, IMHO.
#1 Claims were made about difficult logistics with NATO "allies" who used the 9mm. Somebody figured it would speed resupply to have to carry just one handgun caliber. Musta been a frog.
#2 Claims were made that the 1911 was too much of a "kicker" for female soldiers. Well, sure. But I taught my daughter to shoot when she was 10. Today at 24 and married she has her very own Ruger SP101 357 magnum. She's a bullseye shooter with that gun at ten yards with a 3 inch barrel. Recoil can be overcome by proper instruction and practice.
#3 International Politics coupled with...
#4 Lots of money.
It could use a cheek piece and a sling.
I use a .243 to hunt deer, so am familiar with small rounds and wounds. However the 5.56 is underpowered for service round IMO. I killed a deer at 425(measured) yards in Colorado several years back(2000 I believe, Unit 21) and hit it in the heart. It ran about 20 yards and fell over dead. The load was a 100 grn. Hornady and I forget what powder. The gun was a Ruger M77 with a 12 power Redfield variable scope and sighted in for 200 yards. One shot did it, BUT when I am shooting to save my life I want the biggest I can handle:)
Can it do my taxes, too?
No but it might keep the revenuers away for a while though. I mean it would take them a while to quit laughing anyway.
I got to shott my buddy's S&W 500, 1 round was all I could handle. It kicked like a pissed off mule. He is 6'8" 350lbs, he handles it like a pop gun
I understand, but only have heresay to go by, that he also tried to get fresh with her after she offered hospitality to him(food and drink).
Now thats stopping power. And whiplash creator.
I was acquainted with a guy in the early 60's that had been in the philiphines with the O.S.S. and while working his radio looked down to see about 2 foot of Jap bayounet sticking through his belly.
Said he turned and shot the jap with his .45, blowing the jap back, and in turn pulling the bayounet with him. He returned to tapping out his message and once again found the big sticker sticking through his belly and again shot the jap.
It happened a third time and then he shot the jap in the head. I asked how the jap had been able to get up and the guy told me that the particular jap sticking him had wrapped himself in a mat of small thin bamboo, which kept the exit wounds bound together, and that at that time they were usually doped up.
Should have been a head shot on the first one. In the 70's, I was aquainted with Jack Weaver (for you shooters, he is the guy that the "Weaver" stance is named for).
Jack could keep an empty beer can in the air with a gvt. model .45 (usually my beer can, cause Jack drank mickey wide mouth which is in a bottle).
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