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How BRazil Beat the US!! Now if we could only follow thier example......
CNNMONEY.COM ^ | January 24, 2006 | Adam Lashinsky and Nelson D. Schwartz

Posted on 01/31/2006 5:29:57 AM PST by SouthernBoyupNorth

(FORTUNE Magazine) - You probably don't know it, but the answer to America's gasoline addiction could be under the hood of your car. More than five million Tauruses, Explorers, Stratuses, Suburbans, and other vehicles are already equipped with engines that can run on an energy source that costs less than gasoline, produces almost none of the emissions that cause global warming, and comes from the Midwest, not the Middle East.

These lucky drivers need never pay for gasoline again--if only they could find this elusive fuel, called ethanol. Chemically, ethanol is identical to the grain alcohol you may have spiked the punch with in college. It also went into gasohol, that 1970s concoction that brings back memories of Jimmy Carter in a cardigan and outrageous subsidies from Washington. But while the chemistry is the same, the economics, technology, and politics of ethanol are profoundly different. Instead of coming exclusively from corn or sugar cane as it has up to now, thanks to biotech breakthroughs, the fuel can be made out of everything from prairie switchgrass and wood chips to corn husks and other agricultural waste. This biomass-derived fuel is known as cellulosic ethanol. Whatever the source, burning ethanol instead of gasoline reduces carbon emissions by more than 80% while eliminating entirely the release of acid-rain-causing sulfur dioxide. Even the cautious Department of Energy predicts that ethanol could put a 30% dent in America's gasoline consumption by 2030.

(Excerpt) Read more at money.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: alternativefuel; e85; energydependancy; ethanol; gasoline; oil
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We may not have to wait that long. After decades of being merely an additive to gasoline, ethanol suddenly looks to be the stuff of a fuel revolution--and a pipe dream for futurists. An unlikely alliance of venture capitalists, Wall Streeters, automakers, environmentalists, farmers, and, yes, politicians is doing more than just talk about ethanol's potential. They're putting real money into biorefineries, car engines that switch effortlessly between gasoline and biofuels, and R&D to churn out ethanol more cheaply. (By the way, the reason motorists don't know about the five-million-plus ethanol-ready cars and trucks on the road is that until now Detroit never felt the need to tell them. Automakers quietly added the flex-fuel feature to get a break from fuel-economy standards.)

What's more, powerful political lobbies in Washington that never used to concern themselves with botanical affairs are suddenly focusing on ethanol. "Energy dependence is America's economic, environmental, and security Achilles' heel," says Nathanael Greene of the Natural Resources Defense Council, a mainstream environmental group. National- security hawks agree. Says former CIA chief James Woolsey: "We've got a coalition of tree huggers, do-gooders, sodbusters, hawks, and evangelicals." (Yes, he did say "evangelicals"--some have found common ground with greens in the notion of environmental stewardship.)

The next five years could see ethanol go from a mere sliver of the fuel pie to a major energy solution in a world where the cost of relying on a finite supply of oil is way too high. As that happens, says Vinod Khosla, a Silicon Valley venture capitalist who has become one of the nation's most influential ethanol advocates, "I'm absolutely convinced that without putting any more land under agriculture and without changing our food production, we can introduce enough ethanol in the U.S. to replace the majority of our petroleum use in cars and light trucks."

Filling up on ethanol isn't new. Henry Ford's Model Ts ran on it. What's changing is the cost of distilling ethanol and the advantages it brings over rival fuels. Energy visionaries like to dream about hydrogen as the ultimate replacement for fossil fuels, but switching to it would mean a trillion-dollar upheaval--for new production and distribution systems, new fuel stations, and new cars. Not so with ethanol--today's gas stations can handle the most common mixture of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, called E85, with minimal retrofitting. It takes about 30% more ethanol than gasoline to drive a mile, and the stuff is more corrosive, but building a car that's E85-ready adds only about $200 to the cost. Ethanol has already transformed one major economy: In Brazil nearly three-quarters of new cars can burn either ethanol or gasoline, whichever happens to be cheaper at the pump, and the nation has weaned itself off imported oil.

Oh My God! Brazil is no longer dependant on forgien oil... Why aren't we? Good for Brazil.... If they can accomplish this with thier economy why can't we?

1 posted on 01/31/2006 5:29:59 AM PST by SouthernBoyupNorth
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To: SouthernBoyupNorth

Brazil has a lot of offshore oil, we can't tap into ours.

It would help, but you still need natural gas for the boilers. You can use stuff like landfill and sanitary sewer gas but that is limited a bit.


2 posted on 01/31/2006 5:36:26 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: SouthernBoyupNorth
Wait til folks in colder climates than Brazil try to start their car when the temps are low ...

Guess we'll need to put glow plugs in IC engines ;-)

Gasoline will vaporize down to -45 F or so. I don't think EtOH is anywhere close to that.

Still, I support the plan. I'd also like to see someone develop and market solar panels that are architecturally appealing, so 'every roof in America' can be 'shingled' with them. All it takes is money: $3+++/gal or solar/bio. Shoot, where we live in Ga, you could use wind power lately. You make the call.

REM: If you work hard enough, you can convert/crack/catalyze crude oil to EtOH and methanol ;-p
3 posted on 01/31/2006 5:40:16 AM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitor)
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To: SouthernBoyupNorth

I say the faster we burn up the world's crude oil, the faster we'll switch to new energy sources.

Let the revolution begin.


4 posted on 01/31/2006 5:40:53 AM PST by Lunatic Fringe (North Texas Solutions http://ntxsolutions.com)
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To: Blueflag
Gasoline will vaporize down to -45 F or so. I don't think EtOH is anywhere close to that.

Global warming to the rescue.
5 posted on 01/31/2006 5:44:13 AM PST by carumba (The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. Groucho)
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To: SouthernBoyupNorth
...and a pipe dream for futurists.

Probably the only correct statement in this entire article.

Even with our amazing agricultural abilities, we do not have the current ability to keep up with the demand that would be incurred, should we attempt to go to even 20% replacement.

I can't recall the source for that, but I distinctly remember reading it, along with the fallacy that we can all sometime just pull up to McDonalds and order a fillup of the oil that was just used to cook our french fries.

Most folks simply do not realize the absolutely mind-boggling amount of energy consumed in this nation on a daily basis.

Corn and grain spirits ain't gonna solve it.

Granted, there is potential for making a dent, but as of right now, it is a small dent.

6 posted on 01/31/2006 5:44:40 AM PST by OldSmaj (Hey Islam...I flushed a koran today and I let my dog pp on it first. Come get me, moon bats!)
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To: Blueflag
The newer generation of cars won't have a problem with cold temperatures. My boss did say that the older cars in Brazil were not much fun in the winter.

One way around that is to keep using the winter blend gas we use now to blend with the ethanol. The refineries put all the nasties distilled out of the crude into the winter gas.

It is actually much easier to make methanol than ethanol from crude. In fact, I don't know of any major plant that makes ethanol from crude. The problem is you get a split of methanol and ethanol in the column, and then you have to REALLY work hard to separate them. That and methanol is very hard on plastic tubing and piping.
7 posted on 01/31/2006 5:46:22 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: SouthernBoyupNorth
an energy source that costs less than gasoline, (and) produces almost none of the emissions that cause global warming

Yet another ill-informaed article from a major "News" provider - how this stuff gets past reporters who passed third grade science is beyond me.

Ethanol blends can reduce overall CO2 emissions, but only by around 5 percent compared with regular gasoline, so such vehicles still produce substantial amounts of CO2.

8 posted on 01/31/2006 5:46:38 AM PST by M. Dodge Thomas (More of the same, only with more zeros at the end.)
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To: OldSmaj
An interesting thing is the growth of bio diesel.

You can make that stuff out of just about any fat or grease. A lot of grease now a days is disposed of. As you said, I doubt we could go 100% bio at this time, but it would go a long ways to shaking up OPEC. They are very worried that one of these days we will figure out a way to cut them off completely.
9 posted on 01/31/2006 5:48:42 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: OldSmaj
Corn and grain spirits ain't gonna solve it.

Yeah, but they sure make you feel better!


10 posted on 01/31/2006 5:48:58 AM PST by pageonetoo (FReepmail me for bargain cruises! Bonded Agency.)
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To: pageonetoo
Yeah, but they sure make you feel better!

Good one!

11 posted on 01/31/2006 5:55:15 AM PST by OldSmaj (Hey Islam...I flushed a koran today and I let my dog pp on it first. Come get me, moon bats!)
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To: Blueflag
REM: If you work hard enough, you can convert/crack/catalyze crude oil to EtOH and methanol ;-p

But why work? The technology to distill ethanol is simple. Compare the capital and operation costs of bubble towers, catalytic crackers, etc. needed in petroleum refining to the cost of a cellulose----cellulase--->starch--->acid/diastase--->sugar---zymase---->EtOH process and you could throw more than half a petroleum plant's hardware away. You could do most of it in a bathtub.

I am not sure how vapor pressure enters into FI engines, where the fuel is atomized, but we already put low boilers like butane in Winter Blends. Ethyl Ether would work fine in an ethanol system.

In the so-called shortage of the early '70's, a few private pilots were using street gas. They would reach 5000 Feet, the butane would boil, they'd vapor lock and involuntarily decent/restart/repeat as needed. A good way of picking buttons off the seat.

12 posted on 01/31/2006 5:56:01 AM PST by Gorzaloon
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To: SouthernBoyupNorth
Then again....

Size of economies:
US:$12.37 trillion (2005 est.)
Brazil:$1.58 trillion (2005 est.)

US Roadways:
total: 6,393,603 km
paved: 4,180,053 km (including 74,406 km of expressways)
unpaved: 2,213,550 km (2003)

Brazil:
Roadways:
total: 1,724,929 km
paved: 94,871 km
unpaved: 1,630,058 km (2000)

So, with Brazil being the worlds 11th largest economy, slightly larger than California alone, with little or no oil reserves of their own, makes a really, really poor example.

13 posted on 01/31/2006 5:58:42 AM PST by xcamel (Exposing clandestine operations is treason. 13 knots make a noose.)
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To: Gorzaloon; Dashing Dasher

Yikes!


14 posted on 01/31/2006 5:59:06 AM PST by null and void ("Never place a period where God has placed a coma" --Gracie Allen)
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To: M. Dodge Thomas
Amazing indeed. If you calculate the energy required to produce an mmbtu of ethanol, you will find that it requires in excess of an mmbtu of hydrocarbon energy. If ethanol had to pass the same rigorous scientific energy balance research as say "cold fusion" this would be readily apparent.

If brazil is actually energy independent because of use of ethanol, then there is some energy input that the writer of the article is not aware of. It is perhaps a more convenient motor fuel than say natural gas or coal.

In any case, if a country is willing to pay enough, they can be energy independent.....even the us.

15 posted on 01/31/2006 5:59:16 AM PST by cb
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To: cb
Brazil uses sugar cane, and if you use the same criteria for gas that Pimetal used for ethanol (and adjust both for current production methods) it is about a wash. Maybe a slight nod to ethanol because of the byproducts used for animal feed (not sure how to put that into the equation).
16 posted on 01/31/2006 6:02:40 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum
While Ethanol may be a somewhat cleaner fuel in that there are no sulfur oxide emissions to create H2SO4 (Sulfuric Acid)the is no accounting for the Nitrogen oxides (NOx) that just as easily create HNO3 (Nitric Acid). So we get the same acid rain...just a different acid. Also...the ratio of fuel to air is considerably different for ethanol. For a car that gets 20MPG on Gasoline, it will get about 11MPG on ethanol. Alcohol has a lower flash point and burns with an almost invisible flame. Accidents which fuel is spilled are most often not fires. All that would change with ethanol.

Nothing is free and there are trade-offs. Higher fuel consumption, more Oxides of Nitrogen pollution and increased fire hazards. Not the panacea that you think
17 posted on 01/31/2006 6:12:22 AM PST by Ouderkirk (Funny how death and destruction seems to happen wherever Muslims gather...)
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To: SouthernBoyupNorth

Doesn't ethanol eat away older cars' fuel lines and such? (Not sniping - just trying to clear up what may be old questions)


18 posted on 01/31/2006 6:14:53 AM PST by MortMan (There is no substitute for victory.)
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To: Ouderkirk
I agree that it isn't a fool proof thing.

As for the flames, the ethanol will be blended so that wouldn't be a problem. You are right that MPG suffers, but not quite to that extent. Depends a lot on the blend and how the engine is set up.

As for the nitrogen oxides, that is an issue for any air combustion. There are ways to scrub the exhaust (ie catalytic converter), and ways to limit Nox production, but there will always be some.
19 posted on 01/31/2006 6:17:01 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: SouthernBoyupNorth

The Hate Ethanol Chorus will be along soon to delight us with their flat-earth ignorance.


20 posted on 01/31/2006 6:17:21 AM PST by IronJack
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