Experts Claim Official 9/11 Story is a Hoax (Super-Mega BARF Alert)

PR Web ^ | 1/30/06 | Unknown

[ChuckShick]

Steel loses 50% of it's carrying capacity at about 1200 F. Jet fuel burns at 1500 F, and this doesn't account for the other fuel (paper, etc.) that might have gotten the temp over 2000 F, causing about 95% in carrying capacity. These guys are lunatics.

[redgolum]

The Pentagon theories also anger me.

A jet plan is not that "stiff" of a vehicle. This jet hit at full speed into the ground. There would not be much left.

I have gone round and round with people on the net, trying to get them to understand little things like physics and building design to understand the 911 attacks. It usually does little good.

[Peach]

Insanity. Total, complete insanity.

[kellynch]

Elizabeth Holtzman was on the local NPR station today (WNYC in New York) talking about the move to impeach W.

Moonbats on the Left and moonbats on the Right...

[camle]

is that von buelow any relation to claus von buelow of sunny fame?

[redgolum]

These guys are lunatics.

I have met a few of them. They claim to know an awful lot about stuff they have no experience or data with.

[truth_seeker]

911 didn't happen, but if it did the joos did it.

[leadpenny]

Really, it's an impressive list, but, not one Air Traffic Controller. There were at least three ARTCCs involved; Boston, NY and Washinton. Cleveland would make four. The NY TRICON (?) and the Washington Approach Control had folks involved. Tower Controllers at Newark, Laguardia, Dulles, Reagan National and probably many others, were tied into real time events.

Not one Controller has come forward? I believe there was a conspiracy to get JFK, but this is just pure bunk.

[Aliska]

In the history of structural engineering, steel-frame high-rise buildings have never been brought down due to fires either before or since 9/11, so how can fires have brought down three in one day? How is this possible?

I still have questions about it, too, and like other disasters, they will forever go unanswered to my satisfaction.

I do not understand how three buildings could pancake like that, especially the smaller one, to some extent, but not completely. It was a near-perfect demolition job, although I think I remember there was some tilt debris involved. I would have expected at least one of the buildings to topple over at a sharp angle. I also do not understand how they found that one hijacker's passport while most everything else was incinerated. The fires make sense because there have never, to my knowledge, been fires that bad in high buildings.

There was some article about cell phones working from planes with the current technology/towers; I'd like a better explanation of that. Since we have alleged recordings, that is pretty off-the-wall to think otherwise, but I'd like to understand it better. Can people talk by cell phone from planes (even though it is probably discouraged/forbidden normally)? I'm not convinced Flight 97? (PA) wasn't shot down, but think it highly probable that passengers of the doomed flight *would* have taken matters into their own hands, whether or not they were able to receive the intelligence at what had already gone down.

I don't know what to make of the Pentagon. There wasn't enough evidence about it released to the public although there are credible eye-witnesses. The wings shearing off makes sense, but I would expect more damage to the facia of the building regardless.

There is a lot of deliberate disinformation out there which further muddies the waters.

[toddlintown]

Nuts, all of them

[gridlock]

In the history of structural engineering, steel-frame high-rise buildings have never been brought down due to fires either before or since 9/11, so how can fires have brought down three in one day? How is this possible?

Have these twits never heard of the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire?

[andy58-in-nh]

All you need to know about this tripe is contained Here, in "Professor" James Fetzer's web site. To describe it as a "Moonbat" site would be putting it mildly. It's hysterically funny, though unintentionally so. (The moon landings were faked, and right-wingers assassinated Kennedy, and 9/11 was a US plot and.....good times!)

[mewzilla]

FWIW, I think it's TRACON :) But you're right, everyone would had to have been in onit. And they would all have to have stayed quiet. These folks are nuts.

[kenth]

Yep. They act as if the metal had to actually melt to achieve failure. Moonbats.

[hophead]

The truth is:

The Bush family was in cahoots with the construction company that Usama Bin Laden owned and they had sub-contracts to build the steel infrastructure of the Twin Towers. Those towers were built with inferior rivets and the steel structure was sprayed with explosive foam instead of fire retardant foam. The Bush family also had a plan to divert millions of reconstruction dollars to companies owned in whole or in part by the Bush family. Usama and the Bushes also had insurance policies on the towers and surrounding buildings. They made a fortune on the insurance. They will make more on the reconstruction.
(I am now removing my foil hat)

[Eric in the Ozarks]

The University of Minnesota at Duluth.

[MindBender26]

Here are some of the kinds of considerations that these experts and scholar find profoundly troubling:

* In the history of structural engineering, steel-frame high-rise buildings have never been brought down due to fires either before or since 9/11, so how can fires have brought down three in one day? How is this possible?

THERE HAS NEVER BEEN THE AMOUNT OF HIGH TEMPERATURE ACCELERANT (FUEL) BEFORE.

* The BBC has reported that at least five of the nineteen alleged "hijackers" have turned up alive and well living in Saudi Arabia, yet according to the FBI, they were among those killed in the attacks. How is this possible?

ALL INVOLVED HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED MOST HIJACKERS WERE USING FALSE NAMES/PAPERS / STOLEN IDENTITIES OF REAL PEOPLE.

* Frank DeMartini, a project manager for the WTC, said the buildings were designed with load redistribution capabilities to withstand the impact of airliners, whose effects would be like "puncturing mosquito netting with a pencil." Yet they completely collapsed. How is this possible?

SEE BELOW AND BUILDINGS WERE DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND IMPACT OF 707 SIZE A/V, NOT 757/767 A/C

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700*F, the temperature of jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800*F under optimal conditions, and UL certified the steel used to 2,000*F for six hours, the buildings cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?

STEEL DID NOT MELT. IT WAS GREATLY WEAKENED, BENT/BROKE. WE HAVE ALL SEEN A METAL ROD HEATED TO A BENDING TEMPERATURE, WITHOUT "MELTING."

* Flight 77, which allegedly hit the building, left the radar screen in the vicinity of the Ohio/Kentucky border, only to "reappear" in very close proximity to the Pentagon shortly before impact. How is this possible?

WELL KNOWN THAT HIJCAKERS TURNED OFF THE RADAR TRANSPONDER. WAS REACQUIRED AS A "PRIMARY" NON-TRANSPONDING TARGET.

* Foreign "terrorists" who were clever enough to coordinate hijacking four commercial airliners seemingly did not know that the least damage to the Pentagon would be done by hitting its west wing. How is this possible?

PENTAGON WAS NEVER TARGET. A/C CRASHED INTO PENTAGON AFTER NOT FINDING WHITE HOUSE FROM AIR (LOOKS VERY DIFFERENT FROM AIR THAN FROM GROUND)

* Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta, in an underground bunker at the White House, watched Vice President Cheney castigate a young officer for asking, as the plane drew closer and closer to the Pentagon, "Do the orders still stand?" The order cannot have been to shoot it down, but must have been the opposite. How is this possible?

WHY IS THIS SO. ONLY TACTICAL AIRCRAFT IN AREA HAD NO AMMUNITION IN GUNS NOR MISSILES ON WINGS.

* A former Inspector General for the Air Force has observed that Flight 93, which allegedly crashed in Pennsylvania, should have left debris scattered over an area less than the size of a city block; but it is scattered over an area of about eight square miles. How is this possible?

THIS IS SIMPLY COMPLETELY WRONG. A/C WAS A "MEDIUM SIZE SMOKING HOLE", ESTABLISHING THAT A/C HIT GROUND VERTICALLY NOT HORIZONTIALLY. THERE WAS NO 8 SQUARE MILE DEBRIS FIELD, PERIOD.

* A tape recording of interviews with air traffic controllers on duty on 9/11 was deliberately crushed, cut into very small pieces, and distributed in assorted places to insure its total destruction. How is this possible?

BS

* The Pentagon conducted a training exercise called "MASCAL" simulating the crash of a Boeing 757 into the building on 24 October 2000, and yet Condoleezza Rice, among others, has repeatedly asserted that "no one ever imagined" a domestic airplane could be used as a weapon. How is this possible?

IF IT HAPPENED, "MASCAL", WHICH STANDS FOR "MASS CASUALTY" EXERCISES ARE CONDUCTED THOUSANDS OF TIMES A YEAR BY NUMEROUS ORGANIZATIONS. PROBABLY HUNDREDS OF THIS TYPE SCENARIO DRILLS WERE RUN. nbd.

Their own physics research has established that only controlled demolitions are consistent with the near-gravity speed of fall and virtually symmetrical collapse of all three of the WTC buildings. While turning concrete into very fine dust, they fell straight-down into their own footprints.

ANYONE WHO VISITED GROUND ZERO KNOWS THIS IS NOT TRUE.

These experts and scholars have found themselves obliged to conclude that the 9/11 atrocity represents an instance of the approach--which has been identified by Karl Rove, the President's closest adviser--of "creating our own reality

THESE FAR-LEFT BOZOS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH REALITY.

The real bottom line here is, if some group is so stupid to let this out with their names attached, they should not be allowed to cross streets by themselves, let alone teach at a major university.

Their last paragraph illustrates this simply political BS.

[leadpenny]

One of my choices. It's been about a dozen years since I regularly flew in the NE corridor. Thanks.

[robowombat]

James Fetzer, one of the leading lights of these dimbulbs, is a big fish in the JFK assassination conspiracy moonbat league and also is convinced the evil Repubs did in Sen. Millstone:

Conspiracy theories thrive after Wellstone plane crash
Kevin Diaz, Star Tribune Washington Bureau Correspondent

Published June 3, 2003 WELL03

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- When federal investigators released a report last month about the plane crash that killed Sen. Paul Wellstone, some members of Congress hoped it would dispel talk that his plane was sabotaged.

It didn't.

In Internet chat groups, political Web sites and the published reports of several leftist academics, conspiracy theories about Wellstone's death last October maintain a life of their own, particularly in northern Minnesota.

In one nasty exchange, a retired prosecutor from Duluth has threatened to take legal action against a University of Minnesota-Duluth philosophy professor who espouses the belief that the Bush White House had a hand in Wellstone's demise.

The former prosecutor, Thomas Bieter, alleges that the professor, Kennedy-assassination theorist James Fetzer, has committed "criminal defamation" by publishing articles suggesting a government coverup of the crash investigation.

Wellstone associates say they have done nothing to encourage such speculation, which some fear could trivialize the senator's political legacy and turn his memory into a morbid pop culture story.

"It's not productive," former Wellstone aide Allison Dobson said. "We're very anxious to get to the bottom of the crash, but at the same time, this sort of thing seems like chasing one's own tail. . . . We have every confidence that the NTSB and the FBI are doing their work well."

But a final report by the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) is months away.

Left-wing theories

When a prominent political figure dies suddenly, it isn't uncommon for rumors and speculation to spring to life. When White House lawyer Vince Foster committed suicide in 1993, for example, right-wing groups alleged that he was murdered and that then-President Clinton and First Lady Hillary Clinton covered it up.

In Wellstone's case, suspicions surfaced within days of the Oct. 25 crash near the Eveleth-Virginia Municipal Airport that killed him, his wife, Sheila, their daughter Marcia, three staffers and both pilots operating the chartered Beechcraft King Air A100 airplane.

In an Oct. 28 article published on an alternative journalism Web site under the title "Was Paul Wellstone Murdered?" Buffalo State College journalism professor Michael Niman wrote, "There is no indication today that Wellstone's death was the result of foul play. What we do know, however, is that Wellstone emerged as the most visible obstacle standing in the way of a draconian political agenda by an unelected government. And now he is conveniently gone."

In the article, posted on AlterNet.org, the professor expressed surprise that Wellstone had "lived this long."

Niman's article was also followed by a number of similar pieces in the left-wing press, notably one by syndicated cartoonist and commentator Ted Rall speculating that Wellstone was killed so Republicans could regain control of the Senate. "Did government gangsters murder the United States' most liberal legislator?" Rall wrote in a column Oct. 29.

Rall's piece has since become fodder for discussion -- and condemnation -- on a number of Web sites.

The column was followed by a piece by ex-Los Angeles police officer and journalist Michael Ruppert, who concluded in his political newsletter, From the Wilderness, that top Democratic officials are twice as likely to die in plane crashes as Republicans.

Ruppert, best known for his accusations of alleged CIA drug trafficking, called the history of plane crashes culminating in Wellstone's death "too full of coincidences."

'Conspiratorialists'

The official Washington investigation has focused on a combination of pilot error and northern Minnesota weather.

Rep. Jim Oberstar of Duluth, the top Democrat on the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, said the joint FBI and NTSB investigation has raised enough questions about the two pilots' approach in low cloud cover to put aside the theories of "conspiratorialists."

"Every allegation regarding sabotage was fully investigated, and the NTSB came up with no evidence of that," said Mary Kerr, Oberstar's press aide.

But the cause of the crash is still far from settled in articles and Internet discussions involving Fetzer, the Duluth philosophy professor who won a $100,000 McKnight Foundation grant in 1996 for his work in the philosophy of science.

Fetzer, an ex-Marine who has published several books and papers about the JFK assassination, opened the first of six articles in the Duluth Reader Weekly about the Wellstone crash by saying, "Conspiracies are as American as apple pie."

Discounting weather, pilot error or mechanical problems in Wellstone's flight, Fetzer's articles have seized on the possibility of sabotage brought on by a futuristic electromagnetic pulse weapon that he said could have disabled the plane's computerized components.

Evidence for this, he said in an interview, was the absence of any distress call from the pilots and the odd cell-phone experience reported by St. Louis County lobbyist John Ongaro.

Ongaro, who was near the airport when Wellstone's plane went down, has dismissed the significance of his experience, in which he said his cell phone made "strange" sounds and then disconnected.

"It's not unusual for cell phones to cut out, especially in northern Minnesota," he said.

Fetzer's articles rely less on hard evidence of any kind of murder plot than on arguing that the investigators' findings don't add up.

More provocative than Fetzer's theories about how Wellstone's plane went down are his conclusions about who was responsible.

"When I suggest Republicans may have been involved," he wrote in the Reader, "I do not mean the average GOP voter. I mean the troika that runs the government, consisting of Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and Donald Rumsfeld."

A White House spokesman said he had no comment about Fetzer's allegations. Fetzer's theories do not implicate Sen. Norm Coleman, R-Minn., who was running against Wellstone when he died. Two Coleman aides dismissed Fetzer's accusations privately but declined to make any public comment.

Fetzer's theories have caught the attention of retired St. Louis County prosecutor Thomas Bieter, who has started a critical Internet chat group called FETZERclaimsDEBUNK.

Much of the give-and-take on the Web site has been between Fetzer and Bieter, who once took a philosophy course from Fetzer and considered him a friend. The two are now bitter antagonists.

Bieter has threatened to take his case to his former colleagues at the St. Louis County attorney's office.

Chief prosecutor John DeSanto said his office would be unlikely to get involved. But that has not deterred Bieter, who said Fetzer could face civil sanctions as well.

"I simply think it's irresponsible to publish articles accusing Republicans, the FBI and the NTSB of an assassination coverup before the investigation has even been completed," Bieter said.

Fetzer said he has not spoken out about the Wellstone death as a university professor but as a private citizen.

"This is not done off the top of my head," he said. "I'm not just interested in stirring up some . . . storm. I'm interested in the truth. If I can become convinced that I am mistaken about this, I will gladly accept that and sleep easier at night. Because, believe me, the implications of this are profoundly disturbing."

Kevin Diaz is at kdiaz@mcclatchydc.com.

[houeto]

Hmmm. How about massive structural damage with a bunch of really heavy floors above the structural damage???? Twits...

And what structural damage did building #7 have that caused it to fall? That one has puzzled me from the git-go.