U.S. Brings Back the .45

Strategy Page ^ | January 27, 2006

[John Jorsett]

After two decades of use, the U.S. Department of Defense is getting rid of its Beretta M9 9mm pistol, and going back to the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) weapon. There have been constant complaints about the lesser (compared to the .45) hitting power of the 9mm. And in the last few years, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the marines have officially adopted .45 caliber pistols as “official alternatives” to the M9 Beretta. But now SOCOM has been given the task of finding a design that will be suitable as the JCP (Joint Combat Pistol). Various designs are being evaluated, but all must be .45 caliber and have a eight round magazine (at least), and high capacity mags holding up to 15. The new .45 will also have a rail up top for attachments, and be able to take a silencer. Length must be no more than 9.65 inches, and width no more than 1.53 inches.

The M1911 .45 caliber pistol that the 9mm Beretta replaced in 1985, was, as its nomenclature implied, an old design. There are several modern designs out there for .45 caliber pistols that are lighter, carry more ammo and are easier to maintain than the pre-World War I M1911 (which is actually about a century old, as a design). The Department of Defense plans to buy 645,000 JCPs.

SOCOM will, with input from other branches, handle the evaluation and final selection. This will take place this year, and if the military moves with unaccustomed alacrity, troops could start getting their JCPs next year. But don’t hold your breath.

[Pete-R-Bilt]

I have more faith in GLOCK than in Springfield's M1 Garand.

Ya, he's pretty reliable, most of the time...

[xander]

Based on articles by police and military in cold climates who learned that many layers of clothing can reduce the effectivness of 9mm rounds. Sorry you think it's idiotic, but apparently it's concern enough that many departments have chosen to go with pistols in .40 and .45 for that reason alone.

[yarddog]

I think you have a valid point but you have it backwards. A FMJ 9mm will penetrate thick clothing better than a .45 or .40.

I have even heard that is one of the reasons the Germans kept the 9mm instead of going to a larger caliber. A lot of their fighting was done in winter conditions and the 9 would go right through several layers of heavy clothing.

[jess35]

SOCOM authorized the Mark 23 as an offensive pistol back in the 90's. The only difference between it and the USP tactical is the barrel length (1" longer) and the reverse threading on the barrel.

[glock rocks]

I have more faith in GLOCK than in Springfield's M1 Garand.

Ya, he's pretty reliable, most of the time...

I aim to please :o)

[glock rocks]

Excellent points Squantos.

For what it's worth as I type this a G21 with a streamlight M3 rail light is sitting on the desk next to me...

LOL. I've got a SIG in .40 with an E2e resting next to it on the desk. BTW, did you get a chance to toy with the granite SIG yet?

[Thunder90]

Use .45 rounds in an MP5 style weapon.

[Thunder90]

Accuarcy is not an issue if you can't hit what you are shooting at because of stuff in the way. It is the same argument with the 5.56 shells.

[IGOTMINE]

The XM-8 is dead. So is the 6.8mm SPC.

My source is well connected and has provided reliable information in the past.

[Shooter 2.5]

Mateba

[BigCinBigD]

Then we should fill in the hollow point with pig lard and cap it off with thin copper. ;)

[databoss]

Kustom Karry only way to go...a true accurate rapid fire "combat" handgun - try squeezin' off rounds with a Schlock as fast a you can a 1911 frame - it takes forever...btw the Fairfax County cops accidentially killed a suspect last week - bet (maybe a bad choice of words the guy was wanted for gambling charges) the inquiry will reveal a Schlock went off "inadvertently"...

[neutronsgalore]

"Then we should fill in the hollow point with pig lard and cap it off with thin copper. ;)"

Heh heh heh! I like it! Too bad the UN pansies would nail us for using Geneva Convention banned "deforming" and "poisoned" ammunition. Though I personnally think it doesn't count when you're fighting "unlawful combatants".

[Lurker]

Now if they make that USP 40 in 45, that'd be a hell of a combat pistol.

L

[jess35]

Try googling the USP45.

[Lurker]

Thanks. I didn't know they were making one.

Mostly cause I didn't look for it. Now that I know they make one, I'm gonna have to add it to my 'must purchase' list which is already waaaaaaay tooooo long.

Somehow I don't think I'll be able to slip this one past Lurker Control.

L

[jess35]

Somehow I don't think I'll be able to slip this one past Lurker Control.

Mr Jess35's trick is to say he's buying his latest firearm for me. That backfired on him when he brought a Kel-Tec SU16C home and I thanked him for it before putting it in my safe.

[CatoRenasci]

Not sure why you seem to prefer the M1A1 Thompson to the M1928 with a Cutts compensator to help keep it down.... Have you ever spent much time on a range with a Thompson? They're not easy to be accurate with, and they really tend to climb, especially if you try to fire more than 3 round bursts. Takes a very delicate touch. And heavy? And the 50 round drums tend to jam....

[bad company]

Based on articles by police and military in cold climates who learned that many layers of clothing can reduce the effectivness of 9mm rounds

Penetration is the advantage that 9mm brings to the table. Some gurus believe it brings too much.

many departments have chosen to go with pistols in .40 and .45 for that reason alone.

Which departments are going with the .45?

[Brucifer]

That explains so very much. My 1911 is a tack driver, and was so directly out of the box. It's an Auto Ordnance .45

I shot pistols for my unit when I was in the infantry. We didn't have a budget for anything that wasn't in the armory, so we literally took every .45 in the unit out to the range to see which ones would shoot straightest.

Also, for what it's worth, I was a medic and for a few years worked in ERs in and out of the service. I've seen people killed with everything, except maybe a .22 short. Not combat, of course, but everyone I've ever seen who'd been shot with a .45 was dead on their way to the ground.

I'm sure others have had similar experiences, but I'm not a technician and just know what I've seen. If I were to guess, I'd say bullet placement is Job One, but when you don't have time for a nice leisurely target shoot a .45 seems to work best.

I carry a .380 concealed because I just don't have enough ass to carry a .45 all day long. It is also a 1911 clone because I'm too old to learn how to shoot anything else, and after thirty plus years of practice I can pretty much draw, fire, and hit center of mass under any conditions.