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Circumcision Ritual Generates Controversy
1010 WINS AM ^

Posted on 01/28/2006 7:21:40 PM PST by chet_in_ny

For thousands of years, rabbis performed a simple procedure to cleanse the wound left by a ritual circumcision. Like Boy Scouts treating a snake bite, they quickly sucked blood from the cut and spit it aside, ostensibly disposing of any harmful impurities.

The procedure may seem pure 18th Century, but it is the subject of a clash between religion and science in modern-day New York.

Prompted by a child's death, the state health department is developing its first set of safety guidelines on the ritual of oral suction, which was abandoned by most Jews long ago but survived in a handful of Hasidic communities.

Doctors have long been concerned that the act, called "metzitzah b'peh" in Hebrew, could spread disease, but their argument became urgent last year when New York City health officials said the procedure had given a baby a fatal infection.

The illness was herpes simplex type 1, the common virus transmitted by saliva that causes cold sores. Usually harmless to adults, it can be deadly to newborns.

(Excerpt) Read more at 1010wins.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: New York
KEYWORDS: bris; newyork; ptooey; snipsnip
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To: Alouette

The cultural setting of Muslim men in Africa is far different than that in Europe or Australia. Most especially, the African Muslim communities tend to be uniformly Muslim. In Europe and Australia, the victims of gang-rape are virtually always non-Muslim.

And the key is the comparison between groups in proximity, and as I stated non-Muslim Africans tend to be far more promiscuous than Muslim Africans.

And rape is a phenomenon totally separate from promiscuity, might I add. Might I also add that women are also a vector, and Muslim women are dramatically less promiscuous than non-Muslim.


101 posted on 01/29/2006 9:00:53 AM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: ozoneliar
it has proven health benefits.

There are no NET health benefits to cutting off a boy's foreskin. The small medical benefits do not outweigh the risks and harms. There is no other surgery that doctors will perform on children with the same ratio of benefits to risks as infant circumcision. It is the only exception to the normal standard of care that doctors use for surgery on children.

It is past time for American doctors to start treating a boy's penis with the same standard of care they use for the rest of his body, i.e. surgery is only done when there is a medical condition present that requires surgery for treatment.

College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia. Infant Male Circumcision. Jun 2004. https://www.cpsbc.ca/cps/physician_resources/publications/resource_manual/malecircum

"Infant male circumcision was once considered a preventive health measure and was therefore adopted extensively in Western countries. Current understanding of the benefits, risks and potential harm of this procedure, however, no longer supports this practice for prophylactic health benefit. Routine infant male circumcision performed on a healthy infant is now considered a non-therapeutic and medically unnecessary intervention."

102 posted on 01/29/2006 9:04:45 AM PST by TDunn
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To: Ma3lst0rm

What does this Jewish ritual have to do with the Catholic Church?


103 posted on 01/29/2006 9:08:22 AM PST by ContraryMary (New Jersey -- Superfund cleanup capital of the U.S.A.)
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To: Aliska
It gets more personal, but I would prefer a circumcized man for a marriage partner, because I think there is a lesser chance of passing on that virus that causes cervical cancer.

More and more it is being discovered there are health reasons that favor circumcision.

104 posted on 01/29/2006 9:14:51 AM PST by ContraryMary (New Jersey -- Superfund cleanup capital of the U.S.A.)
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To: ContraryMary
More and more it is being discovered there are health reasons that favor circumcision.

No professional medical organization in the world recommends that boys should be circumcised. The small potential medical benefits do not outweigh the medical risks and harms

Non-religious male and female circumcision started in the USA in the late 1800s because doctors thought it would keep boys and girls from masturbating.

A recent study found circumcised women have a lower HIV infection rate. It appears there are health reasons that favor female circumcision too.

105 posted on 01/29/2006 9:26:52 AM PST by TDunn
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To: CalvaryJohn
This just makes my Ick meter go way off the scale.

Thank you! I agree. I'm leaving this thread on your post!

106 posted on 01/29/2006 9:30:26 AM PST by MilspecRob (Most people don't act stupid, they really are.)
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To: AntiGuv

How 'antiguv' can you be if you are talking about using state power on a topic that doesn't affect yourself?


107 posted on 01/29/2006 9:30:31 AM PST by sobieski
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To: TDunn
No professional medical organization in the world recommends that boys should be circumcised. The small potential medical benefits do not outweigh the medical risks and harms

Non-religious male and female circumcision started in the USA in the late 1800s because doctors thought it would keep boys and girls from masturbating.

A recent study found circumcised women have a lower HIV infection rate. It appears there are health reasons that favor female circumcision too.

Whoever said it has anything to do with HIV? And last I heard, most reputable medical organizations recommended leaving the decision to the parents in the case of infant circumcision. And you are underestimating the benefits.

Also, don't cloud the subject with moronic talk about female circumcision.

108 posted on 01/29/2006 9:35:38 AM PST by ContraryMary (New Jersey -- Superfund cleanup capital of the U.S.A.)
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To: sobieski
...if you are talking about using state power on a topic that doesn't affect yourself?

I was circumcised as an infant without a valid medical indication. I wish I still had all the parts I was born with.

In my opinion there needs to be a compelling reason before it is ethical to cut off a normal, healthy, functional part of a child's body. For non-Muslim and non-Jewish parents the reasons given for infant circumcision don't even come close to being compelling.

Doctors have a legal and ethical duty to do what is in the best interest of the patient, not what someone else wants done for cultural or social reasons. For infant circumcision, the patient is the boy, not the parents. If American doctors were doing their legal and ethical duty to protect their patients from medically unnecessary surgery, there would be no need for government intervention.

109 posted on 01/29/2006 9:41:44 AM PST by TDunn
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To: chet_in_ny

Would that include female circumcision and human sacrifice? What about that aboriginal fellow some years back who killed someone as part of his religion? The state does have the right when it affects another (in this case the kid). Now I don't happen to believe that Male circumcision damages a boy to the point it should be regulated but ignoring the states role only makes containing it more difficult..


110 posted on 01/29/2006 9:55:21 AM PST by N3WBI3 (If SCO wants to go fishing they should buy a permit and find a lake like the rest of us..)
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To: SouthernFreebird
I'm a woman and I've had both. I only had the intact man for one night because it was repulsive to me. I couldn't overcome the smell, nor the feel of it.

Many African men feel the same way about uncircumcised women.

111 posted on 01/29/2006 4:09:35 PM PST by TDunn
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To: AntiGuv

"women are also a vector"????????


112 posted on 01/29/2006 4:26:58 PM PST by drhogan
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To: ContraryMary
And you are underestimating the benefits.

Every professional medical organization in the world that has a policy on circumcision says the medical benefits of circumcision are about equal to the risks and harms. In other words there is no net medical benefit. To the best of my knowledge infant circumcision is the only surgery that doctors will perform on a child that has no net medical benefit. For all other surgeries the normal standard of care requires the medical benefits of the surgery to significantly outweigh the risk and harms. Infant circumcision does not meet that standard of care.

If you know of any other surgery that doctors will perform on a child where the medical benefits of the surgery do not significantly outweigh the risk and harms or the surgery does not correct a birth defect, please let me know what it is.

Also, don't cloud the subject with moronic talk about female circumcision.

The main difference between male genital cutting and female genital cutting is there are more varieties of female genital cutting. There is one form of female genital cutting that is similar to male circumcision. Sunna circumcision cuts off the prepuce of a girls clitoris. Male circumcision cuts off the prepuce of a boys penis.

Both sunna circumcision of girls and male circumcision of boys are not medically necessary. Both remove a normal, healthy part of a child's genitals without a medical indication. Both are done mainly for cultural or social reasons. Both are done by doctors; in America doctors circumcise boys and in Egypt doctors circumcise girls.

Please explain the ethical difference between a doctor cutting off the prepuce of a girl's clitoris without a valid medical indication and a doctor cutting off the prepuce of a boy's penis without a valid medical indication.

113 posted on 01/29/2006 4:44:39 PM PST by TDunn
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To: AntiGuv

apparently circumcision is a major protective influence against invasive penile cancer.

i'm not actually advocating circumcision. i'm not a medical doctor or an expert on health effects of circumcision.
but it seems to me, that it would make more sense to look at the overall health effects, pro and con, before taking a strong position either way.


114 posted on 01/29/2006 5:04:32 PM PST by drhogan
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To: drhogan
apparently circumcision is a major protective influence against invasive penile cancer.

More men in the USA die of male breast cancer than die of penile cancer. Also more women die of vulva cancer than men die of penile cancer. If parents cut off their daughter's labia, she will never get cancer of the labia.

"Nevertheless, because this disease (penile cancer) is rare and occurs later in life, the use of circumcision as a preventive practice is not justified." - American Medical Association. Report 10 of the Council on Scientific Affairs (I-99), Neonatal Circumcision. http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/article/2036-2511.html

115 posted on 01/29/2006 5:20:49 PM PST by TDunn
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To: drhogan
Correction of URL...

American Medical Association. Report 10 of the Council on Scientific Affairs (I-99), Neonatal Circumcision. http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/13585.html

116 posted on 01/29/2006 5:30:05 PM PST by TDunn
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To: All
Two good books on circumcision were published last year.
117 posted on 01/29/2006 5:45:29 PM PST by TDunn
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To: TDunn

thanks for the reference.
since both the AMA and the American Pediatric Association recommend against ("non-ritual")circumcision as a routine practice, i think the health issue is settled for now.


118 posted on 01/30/2006 3:49:22 PM PST by drhogan
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To: TDunn

I'm curious... regarding your comment that many African men feel the same way about non circumcised females...

Are you African? Or is there another source of your
comments?

thanks,
ampu


119 posted on 01/30/2006 4:47:41 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (outside a good dog, a book is your best friend. inside a dog it's too dark to read)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Are you African? Or is there another source of your comments?/i>

I am not African. My comment is based on conversations with men from countries where female genital cutting is common. Also according to organizations trying to end female genital cutting, hygiene and cleanliness is one of the reasons given for the practice.

120 posted on 01/31/2006 1:20:06 PM PST by TDunn
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