Is ID science or religion?

antievolution.org ^ | Prof. Phillip E. Johnson

[Luis Gonzalez]

Prof. Johnson is considered to be the father of the Intelligent Design movement. What follows is known as The Wedge Strategy, authored by Johnson.

In the words of the recognized father of the ID movement...ID is religion.

[RightWingAtheist]

they're trying=they're not trying

[RightWingAtheist]

When you realize the majority of expert scientists are clowns, you will have moved a long way toward growing as a person.

Utter hogwash.

[bondserv]

I was a golf professional for a while and enjoyed everything about it. Many people thought I was a clown for wasting my time chasing a little white ball and teaching people to do the same. Improving peoples golf game is very rewarding, but it doesn't improve their character because of their improvement.

A person getting out and walking the course more often, because they enjoy playing better golf, may even extend their life many years. Entertaining and sometimes helpful just like Science.

A right perspective has more effect on a persons character than knowledge. Principled decisions have nothing to do with knowledge or science.

[Physicist]

Yeah, science and golf...the same thing, really.

What was it that Twain said? "Science is a nice creation myth...SPOILED!" Or something like that.

[Virginia-American]

A new record. I think the last time I checked it took about 50 posts for an evo to compare christians to islamofascists

Teaching evolution is illegal in Saudi Arabia.

[Virginia-American]

AndysandMikesMom said: Well, you do know that I am mainly a lurker on these Evo/Creo/ID threads...and I read each and every post, no matter how long the thread goes on...I would have to imagine, that if I take the time to read everything, that other lurkers do as well...

I did that for a *long* time before I ever posted anything.

[101st-Eagle]

I AM GOD!

Sadly, the attitude of some scientists.

[JamesP81]

Welcome to the list!

[Ken H]

You just made the list, buddy!

(from Stripes)

[Thatcherite]

Hi Bondserv. I'm so glad that you have decided to embrace ID. Indeed you claim:

ID will be mathematically proven through continued genetic and molecular research to be the only explanation for the complex interrelated systems of life.

Its good to see you dropping your young-earth-creationism, for which there is no physical evidence whatsoever, and vast amounts of contradicting evidence. Just to confirm, you do agree with the following ID precepts, as repeatedly stated by all the principal scientific proponents of ID (Behe, Denton, Dembski, Meyer)? These are the beliefs of the scientists "working" (in theory) to get that proof for you:

• The earth is around 4.5 billion years old.
• The universe is much older, around 14 billion years.
• Evolution is a fact supported by so much evidence that it is beyond dispute
• The scientific theory of evolution is the best explanation for the fact of evolution that we have
• All living things on earth share common descent
• There is no physical evidence that the Designer (whoever that is, nudge, wink) has intervened for many millions of years

I usually quote Behe or Denton at this stage, as they are repeatedly on record admitting universal common descent to be a fact, but for a change lets quote Meyer (my amphasis added):

"The theory [ID] does not challenge the idea of evolution defined as change over time, or even common ancestory, but it disputes Darwin's idea that the cause of biological change is wholly blind and undirected"

[hail to the chief]

Goddidit

[hail to the chief]

So what do you suggest? Should scientists take a look at random events and ascribe them to supernatural powers, since it cannot be tested and shown otherwise?

[bondserv]

So what do you suggest? Should scientists take a look at random events and ascribe them to supernatural powers, since it cannot be tested and shown otherwise?

You ask the most important question that mankind has to ask.

Let us take a court case as an example:

There was a bank robbery. The bank robber used a nondescript loose fitting grey sweatsuit, a black gym bag and a grey knitted ski mask. However, his car was seen to be a blue pick-up truck. There are many blue pick-up trucks in Los Angeles, but this pick-up truck has a dented right front fender. There are fewer blue pick-up trucks in L.A. with dented right front fenders, but there are probably still to many to convict.

This blue pick-up truck also had a bondo patch on the rear left part of the truck bed. Fewer pick-ups in L.A. have a dented right front fender and rear left bondo patches, but there may be too many to convict. This pick-up had a black bedliner as well. Now we are narrowing the circumstantial evidence to fewer potential culprits. This pick-up truck was found with a black gym bag having a grey ski mask and the money from the bank inside, laying on the front seat of the pick-up truck.

There has been 2000 years of an unchanging document that has not contradicted historical claims, as well as modern scientific claims. When science got things wrong, it contradicted or misrepresented the Scriptures (Flat Earth, Galilean solar system...). The brightest Western minds, including a majority of our Founding Fathers had personal experience with the Creator represented in the Bible.

The character of those who by faith place their trust and have real fellowship with Jesus Christ are transformed supernaturally. The evidence to who our Creator is has stronger weight than the owner of the blue pick-up above. The difference being that Jesus Christ admitted to have Created the universe.

Unprovable from a scientific standpoint, however demonstrably true when we consider the totality of our reality.