Is ID science or religion?

antievolution.org ^ | Prof. Phillip E. Johnson

[Luis Gonzalez]

Prof. Johnson is considered to be the father of the Intelligent Design movement. What follows is known as The Wedge Strategy, authored by Johnson.

In the words of the recognized father of the ID movement...ID is religion.

[WildHorseCrash]

A new record. I think the last time I checked it took about 50 posts for an evo to compare christians to islamofascists. This time, it only took eight. The response time is getting better...

If you don't want to be lumped in with them, stop acting like them.

[connectthedots]

Except the bit where they decide on the conclusion before planning and doing the science.

That would be a fair description of evolution.

[bert]

ID is to science as Kwanzaa is to Christmas

[M203M4]

ID certainly isn't science and I really don't think it's religion either (even though the religious community seems to be particularly susceptible to being suckered in by it). It's more or less a charlatan hoax perpetuated by agenda driven people who want to destroy or at least seriously diminish our nations advancements in science education.

Re #21.

[JamesP81]

If you don't want to be lumped in with them, stop acting like them.

Pretty much the attitude the left has had towards religious-types in the past ten years. It didn't get them anywhere, and it won't get you anywhere either. So, by all means, keep running your mouth. It will work out as well for you as it did for John Kerry in 2004.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[Quark2005]

Question for the day:

With modern dating methods, what age would a freshly created piece of matter date at?

Zero

[RightWingAtheist]

Neither. It's pseudoscientific flapdoodle.

[WildHorseCrash]

Pretty much the attitude the left has had towards religious-types in the past ten years. It didn't get them anywhere, and it won't get you anywhere either. So, by all means, keep running your mouth. It will work out as well for you as it did for John Kerry in 2004.

LOL!! Yeah, forcing your religius dogma on other people's children in the public schools is working out just great for you fundies... Just as it did for the Dover, Pa IDiot Creatards.

[JamesP81]

LOL!! Yeah, forcing your religius dogma on other people's children in the public schools is working out just great for you fundies... Just as it did for the Dover, Pa IDiot Creatards.

Perhaps you'd like to borrow my shovel? You know, so you can dig faster...

[highball]

Pretty much the attitude the left has had towards religious-types in the past ten years.

Not all "religious-types", just the ones who lie to further their political agenda. Like the Discovery Institute and the Dover school board members, for example.

[JamesP81]

Not all "religious-types", just the ones who lie to further their political agenda. Like the Discovery Institute and the Dover school board members, for example.

Perhaps I need to set up a shovel factory. Seems to be a high demand around here.

[Antonello]

>Except the bit where they decide on the conclusion before planning and doing the science.

That would be a fair description of evolution.

connectthedots, it amazes me that you have managed to remain completely ignorant about what the ToE actually says despite having it explained to you repeatedly on these crevo threads. You are truly a pillar of granite standing strong against a tide of information.

[Antonello]

With modern dating methods, what age would a freshly created piece of matter date at?

Out of curiosity, how does new matter get created?

[highball]

Are you denying that the DI has been hiding its true agenda, revealed in the Wedge Document?

Or are you denying that the Dover school board members lied under oath?

Which one?

[WildHorseCrash]

Perhaps you'd like to borrow my shovel? You know, so you can dig faster...

LOL... You seem to work under the delusion that I give a damn what you ID/Creationist morons think. In fact, if you'd keep you ignorant dogmas in your churches and homes where they belongs, then I wouldn't even bother. But you have to go and try to infect other people's kids with your anti-science mindlessness, making "conservative" and "Republic" synonymous in too many people's minds with "brain-dead ignorant."

Dover showed how idiotic your whole approach is, and how disastrous this ID movement is politically for conservatives and Republicans. Rick Santorum is still suffering for his little flirtation with this idiocy. It seems that science isn't the only subject of which you people keep yourself voluntarily ignorant.

[bondserv]

You defend the notion if ID, so, in your opinion, who is that Intelligence?

The same one referenced by the most brilliant minds in history.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

If you are confused at who the signers of the Declaration of Independence believed the Creator was, check here. The documentation is unassailable.

I don't feel the need to assimilate my principles with the Founders, for we have the same source. Many on this forum would assimilate more easily elsewhere. The great thing about the Founders brilliance is they relied on the freedom to persuade people to Christ, thus we are the largest Christian nation in the world.

The Apostle John, writing regarding the timeless Creatorship of Jesus Christ and how He is intimately involved in sustaining our universe:

Jhn 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

[JamesP81]

Are you denying that the DI has been hiding its true agenda, revealed in the Wedge Document?

Or are you denying that the Dover school board members lied under oath?

Which one?

Specifically, the second one. The first one I don't even care about. The DI has its views; it promotes them. Earth-shattering, I know. And yes, I have heard of the wedge document. The fact that around 1/3 of your posts are about it have assured that there is no way I could *not* know about the wedge document, and I assure you, I've heard about it quite enough. This thread has, like most of these threads, degenerated into 'Christians are liars' and 'creationists don't really understand religion. They're political.' Thanks, but a) I'm not a liar, and b) since I'm the religious one here, I think I won't be taking any athiests ill-informed advice about theology.

This thread is beyond the point of any usefulness. I'm relocating it to Ignoristan, where it belongs.

[highball]

Have you read the transcripts?

Even the board members acknowledged that they gave conflicting stories under oath. One of them, William Buckingham, blamed his conflicting stories on an Oxycontin addiction, of all things....

I have never said that 'Christians are liars'. That's absurd. But some Christians are indeed liars, such as the DI, such as the Dover school board members, and they deserve to get called on it when they do.

"I'm relocating it to Ignoristan, where it belongs."

Common response, when you're caught arguing matters of fact that turn out not to be true. Ah, well....

Farewell. Feel free to rejoin the conversation if you ever want to deny again that the Dover school board members lied - they currently have no defenders, and would probably appreciate your support.