Posted on 01/25/2006 12:16:35 PM PST by Dark Skies
Don't you just hate brown noser, yes men? Although I must give them credit. I have never heard the aura of light approach tried on a boss before.
I dont know why they always have to bring their goats into things.
At present there is no really good source specifically dealing with the tie-in between the War on Terror with the Islamic End-Time beliefs.
No one.
The very closest is Prof. David Cook, and his Contemporary Muslim Apocalyptic Literature (Syracuse Univ. Pr., 2005 ; 0-8156-3058-1) . But even he treats the subject too much as book reviews of some of the Sunni publications in recent years. When he raises the question of whether the terrorists believe these things, he basically says "I really don't know -- gee I hope not." He is an academic, and thus treats his material with a little too much dispassionate distance. I wish wish wish wish wish someone active in the intelligence community could provide some (declassified) corraborative material translated into English.
I do not know Arabic, Persian or Urdu, and so I am limited to materials in English. A lot of my research was just going to libraries and bookstores and seeing if any books on Islam had the words Mahdi, Dajjal, or Qiyamah in its index, and if it did, reading those pages. There are a number of books and booklets in English by Muslim versions of Hal Lindsay available at online Islamic bookstores. IslamicBookstore.com has so far treated me well (I do use a "throwaway" email address with them, just in case). Some of those books are useful; if you care I can give you short reviews of them. Those books foretell the End as coming soon, but they do not advocate terrorist action. They are either "mainstream" Muslim "repent the End is near" books or conspiracy Muslim "the New World Order is the Dajjalic System" books. But if you "squint" you can get a very good idea of how the terrorist mullahs must be preaching to the children in their madrassahs.
I'm going to assume you've already devoured everything from my FR homepage: that you've looked at the links to previous end-time threads on my Links page (I do sometimes say something on one thread, and don't stress it elsewhere -- for instance, on these Iranian threads I haven't mentioned that many Muslims believe the world will end in 2076 and why that is relevant to the WOT) and that you've read at least the David Cook articles I've linked, if not read his two books yet, and that you've started searching "Signs of Qiyama" Muslim websites with the three introductory urls I have there (like the Muslim books, you often need to "read between the lines" at these websites). Definitely read all the End Time Hadiths yourself so you are conversant with basic Muslim apocalyptic beliefs. [This paragraph has been for informational purposes only.]
After that, all I can say right now is to keep your eyes open and your ears peeled and, as they say, "connect the dots" when you tune in to the latest news reports. This facet of the War on Terror has not made it to the public light in the West yet. I dearly hope that our leaders know about it and are paternally keeping mum to us, but the longer time passes, the more I believe that Bush and Rumsfeld and company have no idea as to what the words Mahdi, Dajjal and Qiyama mean.
Wikipedia is often useful for searching links and links and links. For instance, while today people are thinking that only Ahmadinejad believes it's the End Times, you can click to the Mahdi Army and recall that some of the Iraqi "insurgents" have also been dropping eschatological clues that these are the Last Days and thus they are confident that Allah will guarantee them 100% victory over the Coalition forces in Iraq (and eventually the rest of the world).
self ping for later reading
Traditions have been reported mentioning the signs for the time of the appearance of the Imam who will arise (qa'im), peace be on him, and the events which will take place before his appearance, together with the indications and features of it. Among them are: The Sufyani will come out in revolt; the Hasanid will be killed; the Abbasids will dispute over worldly kingdom; there will be an eclipse of the sun in the middle of the month of Ramadan; there will be an eclipse of the moon at the end of that month in contrast to ordinary happenings; the land will be swallowed up at al-Bayda'; it will be swallowed in the east-it will be swallowed up in the west; the sun will stay still from the time of its decline to the middle of the time for the afternoon prayer; it will rise from the west; a pure soul (nafs zakiyya) will be killed in the outskirts of Kufa with seventy righteous men; a Hashimite will be slaughtered between the corner (of the Ka'ba) and the station of Abraham);
the wall of the mosque of Kufa will be destroyed; black standards will advance from Khurasan; al-Yamani will come out in revolt; al-Maghribi will appear in Egypt and take possession of it from Syria; the Turk will occupy the region of al-Jazira; the Byzantines will occupy Ramla; the star will appear in the east giving light just like the moon gives light; then (the new moon) will bend until its two tips almost meet; a colour will appear in the sky and spread to its horizons; a fire will appear for a long time in the east remaining in the air for three or seven days; the Arabs will throw off the reins and take possession of their land, throwing out the foreign authority; the people of Egypt will kill their ruler and destroy Syria; and three standards will dispute over it (Syria); the standards of Qays and the Arabs will come among the people of Egypt; the standards of
Kinda (will go) to Khurasan; horses will come from the west until they are stabled in al-Hira; the black standards will advance towards them from the east; the Euphrates will flood so that the water comes into the alleys of Kufa; sixty liars will come forward, all of them claiming prophethood, and twelve will come forward from the family of Abu Talib, all of them claiming the Imamate; a man of important rank of the supporters of the 'Abbasids will be burnt between Jalula' and Khaniqin; the bridge next to Karkh in the city of Baghdad will be established; a black wind will raise it at the beginning of the day and then an earthquake will occur so that much of it will be swallowed up; fear will cover the people of Iraq and Baghdad; swift death (will occur) there and there will be a loss of property, lives and harvests; locusts will appear at their usual times and at times not usual so that they attack agricultural land and crops and there will be little harvest for what the people planted; two kinds of foreigners will dispute and much blood will be shed in their quarrel; slaves will rebel against obedience to their masters and kill their masters (mawali); a group of heretics (ahl al-bida) will be transformed until they become monkeys and pigs; slaves will conquer the land of their masters; a cry (will come) from the sky (in such a way) that all the people will hear it in their own languages; a face and a chest will appear in the sky before the people in the centre of the sun; the dead will arise from their graves so that they will return to the world and they will recognize one another and visit one another;
that will come to an end with twenty- four continous rainstorms and the land will be revived by them after being dead and it will recognize its blessings; after that every disease will be taken away from those of the Shia of the Mahdi, peace be on him, who believe in the truth; at that time they will know of his appearance in Mecca and they will go to him to support him. (These signs) are as the reports have mentioned. Among the total of these events are some which are bound (to happen) and other which are conditional. God knows best what will take place. We have only mentioned them on the basis of what is recounted in basic sources of tradition (usul) because of their inclusion in traditions which have been handed down. From God we seek help and Him do we ask for success.
[Abu al-Hasan 'Ali b. Bilal al-Muhallabi informed me: Muhammad b. Jafar al-Mu'addib told me on the authority of Ahmad b. Idris, on the authority of 'Ali b. Muhammad b. Qutayba, on the authority of al-Fadl b. Shadhan, on the authority of Ismaeil b. al-Sabbah, who said: I heard an old man among our colleagues mention on the authority of Sayf b. Umayra, who said:]
I (i.e. Sayf b. 'Umayra) was with Abu Jafar al-Mansur and he said to me of his own accord: "There will certainly be a voice calling from the sky the name of a man from the descendants of Abu Talib." "May I be your ransom, Commander of the faithful," I said, "do you relate that?" "Indeed, by Him in Whose hands is my life," he replied, "because my own ears have heard it." "Commander of the faithful," I said, "this tradition which you have heard is before my time." "Sayf, it is the truth," he told me. "When it happens, we will be the first to answer it. Indeed the call will be for a man from the descendants of our uncle."
"A man from the descendants of Fatima, peace be on her?" I asked. "Yes," he replied. "Sayf, if it was not for the fact that I have heard from Abu Jafar Muhammad b. Ali (al-Baqir), who told me about it, even though all the people of the earth have told me about it, I would not accept it from them. However it was Muhammad b. Ali (al- Baqir), peace be on them, (who told me)." [Yahya b. Abi Talib reported on the authority of Ali b. Asim, on the authority of Ata' b. al-Sa'ib, on the authority of his father on the authority of Abd Allah b. Umar, who said:] The Apostle of God, may God bless him and his family, said: "The hour (of the end of the world) will not arise until the Mahdi from my descendants comes forth. The Mahdi will not come forth until sixty liars come forward, all of them declaring: 'I am a prophet.' "
[al-Fadl b. Shadhan reported on the authority of one who reported it on the authority of Abu Hamza al-Thumali, who said:] I (i.e. Abu Hamza al-Thumali) asked Abu Jafar (al-Baqir), peace be on him: "Is the revolt of the Sufyani one of the things which must happen?" "Yes," he replied. "The call is one of the things which must happen as is the rising of the sun from the west one of the things which must happen. The dispute of the Abbasids over the state is also one of them and the killing of the pure soul (al-nafs al-zakiyya). The appearance of the one who will arise (al-qa'im) from the family of Muhammad, may God bless him and his family, is another of the things which must happen." "How will the call be?" I asked.
ETC ETC ETC
http://al-islam.org/masoom/bios/12thimam.html
Thx...your work is much appreciated.
I'll second that. Stick around, we sure need you.
A prophecy in ancient Islamic tradition (usul) indicates a black wind (huayra yana) will rise up at the beginning of "The Day" [of judgment] and then a great earthquake will shake the land so much that it will almost be swallowed up; "before the one who will arise (al-qa'im), there will be red death and white death; there will be locusts at their usual time and at their unusual time like the colours of blood. As for red death that is (from) the sword, while white death is (from) plague." (1)
http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/imam.htm
LOL! As your post# 86 shows, when trolling through the Muslim literature, you need a good shovel. I can partly understand why people might be scared off of investigating the topic. Sometimes you have to hunt to find something relevant to the WOT. I hope I can provide a road map for people, so that they don't get caught in the muck and mire.
I reread this question of yours. First, as I've said in posts above, it's not just the Twelvers -- the whole Muslim world is filled with Apocalyptic talk. So let me answer in terms of how "Qiyamic doctrine" jihad differs from your "run of the mill" jihad ."
You do not need to believe it's the End of the World to be an Islamic terrorist. They can come up with plenty of reasons to make war on the infidels and to think its their religious duty to kill us.
But I suspect that if it were a run-of-the-mill jihad, they would act more like, say, the IRA in Northern Ireland. Kill the infidels and drive the rest out, so that we can have a pure Islamic nation to ourselves. Plant bombs and then run away so you can plant more tomorrow.
I believe the suicidal bent of the current jihad is traceable to the prevelant opinion that we are at the End of History. There is NO FUTURE. So join the Mahdi's army and strap on a dynamite belt. Why not?
Even though the "ordinary" jihadist is a religious fanatic, he should still be planning strategy like a chess game, so that his side gains advantages and the other side falters.
But the "Qiyamic" jihadist will be bursting with confidence that God has already shown him that the story ends with his side winning. There is no possibility of loss, so there is no need to carefully strategize. Anything goes. You can be as reckless as you want, because Allah has guaranteed victory in the Hadith.
Allah can even guarantee that if a nuclear bomb goes off, your guy will survive unfazed while the infidel standing next to him burns. Allah has already said that after the jihad there will be a peaceful Islamic utopia. So there cannot be any lingering radiation. There just can't.
But an "ordinary" jihadist would act more carefully. Qiyamic doctrine adds
Ignore the "Qiyamic doctrine adds" at the tail end of the post up there.
"I wonder if it's a co-ordinated effort."
dajjal covered this in post 72.
This is like a lot of news stories that the MSM does NOT want to cover,
for any number of reasons.
It's like the habit of Arafat for giving a "make love, not war" speech in
English in the morning, then a "Push the Jews into the sea" speech in Arabic
in the afternoon. This apparently went on for years.
I heard Dennis Prager devote an hour to it one day...and finally about
a month or two later, Andrea Mitchell (Mrs. Alan Greenspan) reported it
on NBC Evening News.
What gets me is this...when Reagan's personal fears of a possible Armegeddon
caused by the USSR or other Evil Empire operatives were leaked to the press,
it was a BIG story...and the press did all they could to leave the world
with the impression that a Christian Nutburger was running the country and
that Reagan would cause the end of the world.
Now, when a monster is afoot in Iran, denying the death of millions of
innocents in WWII and having holy, "end-of-days" visions...the press
is as reluctant
to publish as they were to go negative on the USSR. (remember "don't make
The Bear angry!").
For years, lefties and journalists have (more or less rightly) castigated
America for not taking Adolph Hitler seriously. Now that same sector
is seemingly afraid to simply report what is going on Iran.
Are there any signs that there is a resistance to Ahmadinghyjad (whatever) within groups in Iran; ie: students or the military, or has he the whole country following his messianic craziness.
It pretty much is an easy rule of thumb that any sincere pro-Western Muslim de facto cannot believe the "Signs of Qiyamah" are unfolding and that the West is Dajjalic.
I've read your webpage and your posts here. I find your comments very interesting, and well informed.
I also am in total agreement that people such as Ahmadinejad, Bin Laden and other extremists are very dangerous and need to be dealt with accordingly.
I have the following questions and would appreciate your thoughts:
1. What are your views regarding 'suicide' in Islam?
2. Does Islam advocate or condone the ‘deliberate’ killing of women, children and other Muslims or innocents, be it infidels, even during a jihad? (Is this similar to what we would call collateral damage?)
3. What do you think should be done to deal with this crisis? For example, should we annihilate approx 1.3 billion Muslims and eradicate Islam? Should we try to convert Muslims to some other religion or doctrine? Should we hold those current extremist Muslim leaders accountable for their interpretation, teaching and incitement of hatred and violence? Should we point out to all Muslims that their religion is one big bogus and a satanic cult?
I am not taking a position here, but I am simply asking because, IMO, we in the West do not need a great of convincing that atrocities have occurred and, quite rightly, have led to a great deal of fear. Especially post 9/11 and given the current situation with Iran and its delusional leader. I am genuinely interested in your thoughts regarding practical and effective solution(s).
"It pretty much is an easy rule of thumb that any sincere pro-Western Muslim de facto cannot believe the "Signs of Qiyamah" are unfolding and that the West is Dajjalic."
Totally agree.
What about the rest who are kept ignorant and superstitious by their extremist leaders? Not only in Iran but elsewhere in the Muslim world.
According to myth, the Mahdi is a direct descendant of Mohammed, has a broad nose, and is male. Seems there are some other things - I forget -- but female is NOT on the list..
That's why I say that the US and our allies must take positive steps to have a thoughtful PR campaign telling Muslims that these are NOT the End Times and we are NOT the Dajjal.
I'd like to see Bush toss a little of the WOT money to those Qur'anic scholars I mentioned in Post# 98. Put them on our "Voice of America" radio. Have our soldiers distribute their articles. Let's try to defuse this End-Times hysteria.
We need to actively work to marginalize the Qiyamists. But the situation is a mess. There will still be Islamic terrorists who hate our geopolitics and our support for Israel, etc., regardless.
But if we can shrink the number of Qiyamists, then we will shrink the pool from which they recruit many of their footsoldiers.
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