Posted on 01/25/2006 5:17:39 AM PST by ShadowDancer
Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Military Discharges Hundreds
POSTED: 6:59 am EST January 25, 2006
WASHINGTON -- Hundreds of officers and health care professionals have been discharged in the past 10 years under the Pentagon's policy on gays, a loss that while relatively small in numbers involves troops who are expensive for the military to educate and train.
The 350 or so affected are a tiny fraction of the 1.4 million members of the uniformed services and about 3.5 percent of the more than 10,000 people discharged under the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy since its inception in 1994.
But many were military school graduates or service members who went to medical school at the taxpayers' expense - troops not as easily replaced by a nation at war that is struggling to fill its enlistment quotas.
"You don't just go out on the street tomorrow and pluck someone from the general population who has an Air Force education, someone trained as a physician, someone who bleeds Air Force blue, who is willing to serve, and that you can put in Iraq tomorrow," said Beth Schissel, who graduated from the Air Force Academy in 1989 and went on to medical school.
Schissel was forced out of the military after she acknowledged that she was gay.
According to figures compiled by the Pentagon and released by the Center for the Study of Sexual Minorities in the Military, Schissel is one of 244 medical and health professionals discharged from 1994 through 2003 under the policy that allows gays and lesbians to serve as long as they abstain from homosexual activity and do not disclose their sexual orientation. Congress approved the policy in 1993.
There were 137 officers discharged during that period. The database compiled by the Pentagon does not include names, but it appears that about 30 of the medical personnel who were discharged may also be included in the list of officers.
The center -- a research unit of the Institute for Social, Behavioral & Economic Research of the University of California -- promotes analysis of the issue of gays in the military.
"These discharges comprise a very small percentage of the total and should be viewed in that context," said Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, a Pentagon spokeswoman. She added that troops discharged under the law can continue to serve their country by becoming a private military contractor or working for other federal agencies.
Opponents of the policy on gays acknowledge that the number of those discharged is small. But they say the policy exacerbates a shortage of medical specialists in the military when they are needed the most.
Late last year Army officials acknowledged in a congressional hearing that they are seeing shortfalls in key medical specialties.
"What advantage is the military getting by firing brain surgeons at the very time our wounded soldiers aren't receiving the medical care they need?" said Aaron Belkin, associate professor of political science at the University of California at Santa Barbara.
Overall, the number of discharges has gone down in recent years.
"When we're at war, commanders know that gay personnel are just as important as any other personnel," said Nathaniel Frank, senior research fellow at the Center. He said that in some instances commanders knew someone in their unit was gay but ignored it.
The overall discharges peaked in 2000 and 2001, on the heels of the 1999 murder of Pfc. Barry Winchell, who was bludgeoned to death by a fellow soldier at Fort Campbell, Ky., who believed Winchell was gay. About one-sixth of the discharges in 2001 were at that base.
Officials did not provide estimates on the cost of a military education or one for medical personnel. However, according to the private American Medical Student Association, average annual tuition and fees at public and private U.S. medical schools in 2002 were $14,577 and $30,960, respectively.
Early last year the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, estimated it cost the Pentagon nearly $200 million to recruit and train replacements for the nearly 9,500 troops that had to leave the military because of the policy. The losses included hundreds of highly skilled troops, including translators, between 1994 through 2003.
Opponents of the policy are backing legislation in the House sponsored by Rep. Marty Meehan, D-Mass., that would repeal the law. But that bill -- with 107 co-sponsors -- is considered a longshot in the Republican-controlled House
Yes, I regretted it when I clicked on post.
The article fails to mention that the discharged are then required to PAY BACK the money.
There is no reason for a homosexual to join other than to be a disruptor. They should not have joined.
not to also mention the ZERO privacy and extreme close quarters. I remember seeing a video of where submariners sleep and how their living "quaters" were little more than a 3'X 3'X 7' foot bunk. each seperated only by a curtain.
Homsexuals are defined by their attraction to the same sex, they are not military material.
There was the first woman bomber pilot who was kicked out for having and adulterous affair.
She was treated the same as any other bomber pilot by being kicked out.
The military is not a university or a corporation. They are paid to go places and blow things up and when needed kill people. They are to be a disciplined and efficient command machine which follows orders.
Homosexuals are self indulgent fetishists who fail to fit within that structure of the US military.
My husband was a submariner through the 90's. While discussing with him the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, he told me there was a gay guy on the boat and that no one had a problem with that. The guy did his job, they felt he was trustworthy. End of story.
My husband respected the man enough to refuse to say anything more to me about it. He didn't want a decent guy getting in trouble because of something I might say.
they are charged for the education since they did not fill their end of the deal. Additionally, the student debt is not dischargable in bankruptcy (under the old or new law)
I wonder how many out themselves in order to avoid service to iraq. It must be like the pre-combat pregnancies.
LOL! You'd tie your tongue to your shoelaces every morning!
It takes one to know one!
I had forgotten the details of the general's case. Probably because he wasn't hailed as Victim of the Year by journalists and feminists, like the female pilot was.
Anyway, forced retirement is punishment. It's not justice if the same act would get another person court-martialed, but it's still punishment.
WHat are you telling us? That there isnt rampant sex in the Army right now among heterosexuals?!! So, if you get rid of dont ask, dont tell.. then there wont be fraternizing and homosexual sex everywhere? At least its contained now.
In Europe they dont care, because to them the Army is pretty much a superflous extravagance. But one would hope its different here. All the pregnant soldiers being sent home is bad enough!
You are under fire. The medic does not have time to change gloves--if he even has them on.
Now everyone who gets wounded is at risk of the same diseases as the gay guy if this man gets wounded at the same time.
If you know he is gay, does that mean he doesn't get help if he is wounded? ...which would be one reason to not place himself at risk as a heterosexual soldier might?
If there is no discrimination that way, are the other soldiers going to be less effective because they do not want to take a chance on getting wounded if the gay guy gets hit?
If anyone is sandbagging, there will be squabbles.
Whatever the scenario, unit effectiveness is reduced, the probability for internal conflict in what NEEDS to be a cohesive unit is enhanced.
And this is just one example.
I think you hit the perfect example.
It is also a reason why I tend to NOT believe these anecdotal stories about people "knew 'x' was a homosexual but they were good at their job and did not bother them."
I would imagine the code of military conduct REQUIRES the reporting of a homosexual upon discovery. If the officer did not report it and the reporting failure is later discovered then the "did nothing" officer would end their own carreer.
The only stories I have heard with any credibility involve the "overboard" scenario. Remember during the early clinton years when they had a naval stand down because there were a rash of "overboard" accidents just after this new policy was imposed?
When my dad was in Korea (Army, infantry), he said they would surface from time to time. They were usually allowed to move out first, and frequently suffered wounds to the legs. That was a long time before AIDS.
Afternoon BS,
One example is in one untit there was female commander, who had the hotz for a female(Private) soldier assigned to her unit.
This female soldier was a hetrosexual and the lesbian commander kept harrassing her to sleep with her.
This was reported to the Chief of MPI, who initiated an investigation with the Provost Marshal's approval..
In order for the case to hold up in court the young female soldier was required to wear a "wire".
While at her place of duty wearing the wire, the lesbian commander approached the soldier and stated either you have sex with me or I will make your life miserable in this unit.
Well this info was recorded on tape via the wire. As a consequence the commander was rightfully discharged for conduct unbecoming and sexual harrassement.(Resigned) in lieu of Courts Martial.
This is just one example of how homosexuality can affect a unit(s) morale and that of an innocent hetrosexual soldier.
In closing, how would you have felt if this commander had sexually harrassed your daughter, who was just a soldier trying to do their job?
I could give you more examples, but there are just too, many.
I thank you for allowing me to state my reasoning in a fair an impartial manner.
I wish you the best Brownsuga.
Cordially,
NSNR-THM
He should have had a blanket party prior to his official sentence.
On my first ship we had something similar happen, although with a different outcome. One old Alabama boy, who was a 2nd string linebacker for The Tide in his college days, woke up one night with an uninvited rack-mate. When The Tide stopped rolling, the poofter was minus a few teeth and not a little blood. Ol' toothless was off the ship before Reveille the next morning.
They say "Don't mess with Texas". You can add "Don't mess around with Alabama" to that! And that is a high compliment coming from a UF Gator.
"Furthermore, the minute that service member voices his or her homosexual “sexual orientation,” then that service member is subject to discharge under the presumption of his or her willingness to commit homosexual acts."
Pretty honkin' big presumption there, ain't it doggo?
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